How is max drag tested on Penns?

Carlosmfd · August 04, 2014, 11:16:01 AM

Hi!

I've been reading this site for a while, but never posted until now.

I just bought a Penn FTM25N, which is supposedly rated for 25 lbs max drag. I wash't able to get more than 15-16 lbs with the star REALLY cranked down. I sent it in to Penn (who, by the way, gave me AWESOME customer service! They tested my reel and found it was not up to spec, so they gave me a brand-new reel loaded with 80 lb mono (which they used to test the drag), as well as my original spool,full of my 50lb spectra). I re-tested the new reel using both spools, and still don't see how they determine max drag. In order for me to achieve 19-20 lbs on the new reel and spool(loaded with 80lb mono), I have to lock down the star to the point that it's very difficult to back off, even with two hands.

I have been fishing Penn reels for 50+ years (still have green and black USA-made Zs, 140M squidders, SS's, Senators, and an Intnl 975). ALL of them achieve their rated max drags without having to go "Hulk Smash" on them.

Regardless of whether I achieve the rated drag, I'm extremely happy with the quality and design of the reel, not to mention Penn's devotion to their customers...I just wonder, am I doing something wrong?

(P.S., thanks for all the years of great info on your site!)

Carlos

Keta · August 04, 2014, 01:55:07 PM

Are you testing it on a rod? You should hook your scale to something solid, put the line on the scale then load the reel using the rod.

johndtuttle · August 04, 2014, 02:59:50 PM

I can't tell you how Penn tests their drags as I don't know

.

I do know that if you got 20lbs at the top of the spool by the time you were near the bottom you would be getting much more than 25lbs.

Regardless, max drag numbers are pretty useless. The number we should be interested in is what amount of drag can the reel reliably produce year after year or what the reel can do for a short run versus a long run but no one will tell you that number.

Specifically, the engineers know the "margin for safety" the reel and it's drivetrain has but no one shares that with you because it doesn't sell reels (ie it's too complicated and messy).

A reel with what we have found to have a large margin for safety (after experience with the reel) for the amount of drag someone will actually fish is the reel you will find us recommending once we know a person's needs.

Keta · August 04, 2014, 03:34:26 PM

I consider my 25N a 30#-40# reel (10-15 pounds of drag), something it does quite well. I wouldn't push it much further than 50#.

Carlosmfd · August 05, 2014, 06:02:01 AM

I don't mistreat my tackle...but I take issue with the fact that they keep insisting that this reel has 25# max, and that I must not be tightening it enough. Both my AMB 6500-C3 2-spd and my Penn 975 star drag reel Both give me close to 15-16# max without cranking down anywhere near as hard as I did with both the original and replacement 25Ns. I tested it exactly as they asked. I even took the original reel to an authorized (official) Penn service center, and the tech could not get more than 15# when he tried it (then he just shrugged and suggested I contact Penn. The tech at Penn said there was a defect with the reel and sent me a new one, loaded with 80# mono with (with a loop in the end. he claimed he got close to 30# by pulling with his scale, direct from the reel. I did the same with 2 different scales and still could not get more than 19#(I weigh 220lbs, lift weights and don't eat soy (estrogen?), so I don"t think lack of cranking down is the issue). I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that the claim of 25 lbs will have to be filed next to bigfoot and unicorns...or mermaids, to keep it nautical

...Aaaanyways, it's a nice reel and I'll know more after I go bust some amberjacks with it.

Thanks for trying, guys!

Keta · August 05, 2014, 01:53:54 PM

I get 25# out of mine but the star is tight.

SoCalAngler · August 05, 2014, 04:32:32 PM

Just tested my Fathom 25N and I get 25 lbs also but the star is turned to stupid tight.

Porthos · August 05, 2014, 04:59:10 PM

Quote from: Carlosmfd on August 05, 2014, 06:02:01 AM...but I take issue with the fact that they keep insisting that this reel has 25# max...

(In Yoda voice): Give in not to the Force of the Marketing Side. Easy it is to say for them.

Theoretically, if you spool up with 80lb braid, you'll get a capacity of 288 +/- yards. Would that be enough with a short (5-10 yds) 40lb top shot? 50lb? 60lb? Going with the rated 30/650 450/50 370/65, and fishing with 50 or 65lb braid plus a 40, 50, or 60lb mono/fluoro top shot will yield capacities in the 300+ yd to 400+ yds range--a more reasonable amount.

With the 60 lb top shot + 65 lb braid main, 1/3 max rating is 20lbs of drag. Running line thru your guides under load will add somewhere around 1-2lbs drag to what's set on the reel, so factoring your tested 19lbs to that will yield 20lbs+...meeting the 1/3 rule.

Others are getting 25lb with the star down TIGHT...do you REALLY want to fish it that way, say, as an 80lbs or 100lbs reel?

johndtuttle · August 05, 2014, 06:23:32 PM

Quote from: Carlosmfd on August 05, 2014, 06:02:01 AM
I don't mistreat my tackle...but I take issue with the fact that they keep insisting that this reel has 25# max, and that I must not be tightening it enough. Both my AMB 6500-C3 2-spd and my Penn 975 star drag reel Both give me close to 15-16# max without cranking down anywhere near as hard as I did with both the original and replacement 25Ns. I tested it exactly as they asked. I even took the original reel to an authorized (official) Penn service center, and the tech could not get more than 15# when he tried it (then he just shrugged and suggested I contact Penn. The tech at Penn said there was a defect with the reel and sent me a new one, loaded with 80# mono with (with a loop in the end. he claimed he got close to 30# by pulling with his scale, direct from the reel. I did the same with 2 different scales and still could not get more than 19#(I weigh 220lbs, lift weights and don't eat soy (estrogen?), so I don"t think lack of cranking down is the issue). I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that the claim of 25 lbs will have to be filed next to bigfoot and unicorns...or mermaids, to keep it nautical

...Aaaanyways, it's a nice reel and I'll know more after I go bust some amberjacks with it.

Thanks for trying, guys!

Um, yea. If I had a nickel for every time a "max drag" number was published that had no use for 99% of the guys buying the reel, but they bought the reel thinking it was a "25lb drag" reel like a real Big Game reel then I would be rich.

When someone makes a small reel that has a high max what they are really telling you is that it can fish a number about half that for years without issue.

ie Your car can go 120mph and make 5000rpm....how long will it last at those numbers versus 65mph and 2500rpm?

At one it will last a few hours at best. At the other for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Alto Mare · August 05, 2014, 07:14:41 PM

Good explanation John...as always

.
Not related to above, but since you've mentioned rpm, I believe that manufacturers are moving in the wrong direction with the spools. a spool should be taller, but they keep shrinking them $:-\$ .
On line retrieve per crank, a 2" diameter spool needs to work 6 times harder to retrieve what a 6" diameter spool could. I know they could make light, narrow taller spools... if they wanted to.

Tightlines667 · August 05, 2014, 08:29:48 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on August 05, 2014, 07:14:41 PM
Good explanation John...as always .
Not related to above, but since you've mentioned rpm, I believe that manufacturers are moving in the wrong direction with the spools. a spool should be taller, but they keep shrinking them $:-\$ .
On line retrieve per crank, a 2" diameter spool needs to work 6 times harder to retrieve what a 6" diameter spool could. I know they could make light, narrow taller spools... if they wanted to.

Good Point!

Along those same lines, the published max drag on these smaller reels might refer to what the reel is capable of producing with a nearly empty spool, when simply pulling line off (not actual *'working load')
*meaning the sustained load that a reel is capable of cranking under w/o damaging internal components

Unfortunately the manufacturers are not held to any specific standard here (seems to be all market-driven advertising). So short of actual testing, it's often difficult to compare real numbers...no Pune intended.

SoCalAngler · August 06, 2014, 03:00:44 AM

Ok here is how I did my test with my Fathom 25N. I run close to 300 yards of 50 lb JB Line One spectra and a long topper of around 100 yards of 30 lb Izorline Tripple X which is a copolymer mono/fluoro. This reel is used for So Cal/local surface iron hence the long topper on this setup. After tightening the drag to "stupid tight" I did a strait pull off the reel, the reel was not mounted to a rod or had anything that came into contact with the line other the spring scale in which I measured the drag force with. I had to be careful not to jerk or do a ripping line test because the use of only a 30 lb topper as I didn't want the line to part messing up my scale. Strait pull off the reel and I got 25 lbs of drag, the spool was full to the top with the topshot line only used a couple of times.

You can say all you want about guessing what Penn had in mind, full, half, 1/4 full spools but mine was measured full and I got 25 lbs.