Senator 6/0 drag problems

[Greybadger]

Yeah, it was quite shiny. That's a good idea about running down the garden with the line, the neighbours already think I'm a bit odd tying line to the door handle and playing it like a fish, can't get any worse.

And two final pics to show you why I'm so keen to get this reel working at it's tip-top best - it's a great looking reel!

[johndtuttle]

Anotherhing inlike to do that helps settle the drag stack down and makes it more consistent, is tighten the drag down2-4 lbs, tie the line off and go for a run across the yard. Tighten down more, do the same thing, and then at 3/4of drag or more. It puts heat into the stack and "breaks it in" making the carbon surfaces consisitent. It seems to make mine a bit smoother. And it will give you full range of drag, from zero to max, if set properly.

Was the face of the gear glassed over? Or was it a dull color? If shiny it may need to be scuffed a little bit to let the frictions do their jobs properly.

x2, but no need to scuff any surfaces.

In fact, "lapping" or sanding flat the drag washers would be the next step. If they are not perfectly flat that can cause a jerky drag. Lapped drag plates (ie "blue printing") is an old trick perfected by Cal Sheets for both max drag and smooth drag performance.

But, as above, if you have liberal amounts of drag grease in the stack, cranking it down and pulling a good 10-20 yards out quickly will squeeze out excess grease which is usually the culprit.

[Greybadger]

I will give that a go then. Really appreciate the time all you guys put in to responding to this.

[Lensters]

I would agree with John, the next thing is to check to make sure the drag washers are flat.  What he calls lapping, engineers like me call planarization.  It is actually pretty simple.  Rub the washer on a fine flat file, measuring occasionally to make sure that your making it flat and not wedge shaped (changing the orientation of the washer to the file often helps to ensure this).  When most all of the washer is hitting the file, then it is flat.  Finally clean up the file marks with some fine steel wool or 3M polishing pads.

[Greybadger]

Yes, I'll try that next I think. I've lapped washers from other reels before, how successfully I don't know. I've just done the running down the garden thing with the line in hand whilst my wife holds the rod & reel. She's starting to look at me a bit odd too. The drag is definitely still sticky during and even after several runs. I also note that I'm only getting around 15lb max drag according to my electronic scales, more usually 11lb-13lb, with the drag cranked down pretty tight. Whilst this will be ample for UK fishing, I'm surprised it's not more given what I've read on this and other websites about the 114. However, first things first, I need to sort out the sticking problem. The alternative to lapping the washers I guess is to just buy a new set from Penn or Smoothdrag.

[jeff smith]

Hi Mark. I've just rebuilt my third 114 (all bargain basement ebay finds) for porbeagle shark fishing here in the U.K and yes, you're right, you should be getting more drag. I measured 25lb on mine last night.
I've fitted HT100 drag stacks from Mick Simons 01 386 552949 here in the U.K as replacements for my originals  which were all 'old school' 3 disc drags, and so far with liberally applied 'Cal's', they've been smooth. Might be worth trying a stack from him.
You mentioned a bit of play between the sleeve and bridge. I've had similar on my 113s which i use for blue shark and used shims from a Mitchell 300 to reduce the play. You might want to do something similar on the 114 though i'm not sure it will have any effect on your drag issue.
Where are you sharking?
It's a long shot, but i'm towing my boat down to Falmouth on Friday for a week on the blue shark and then possibly running up to Ilfracombe for porgies (all weather permitting). I've got all my senators with me.

[Shark Hunter]

I think if you bought a new drag stack with new stainless washers and HT-100's. Your sticky drag would come to an end. They are less than 12 dollars a set from Scott's.

[Greybadger]

Hi Jeff,

That's interesting, I will give Mick a call tomorrow, does he have a company name, I may have dealt with him in the past? I think I may just bite the bullet and buy a new set from him if he also does the metal washers. Thanks very much for that; one of the issues in getting any upgrades for the Senator is that most come from the States and the postage charges really bump up the cost.

I don't understand why I'm getting so little drag pressure if you're managing 25lb. There seems to be more to this sticking drag than meets the eye...

Yes, I've been reading other posts on this forum about adding shims to the sleeve. I'm not sure what effect, if any, this amount of play would have on the reel.

I'm sharking out of Looe, Cornwall (my usual) also on Friday. I live near Bath but my folks are down that neck of the woods so I take Dad with me. Had a nice 85lb blue last month, still waiting to break the ton...Weather is looking good for this weekend if you're out by then!

[jeff smith]

Don't think Mick has a company name but here's a link anyway; http://www.penn-fishing.co.uk/news-new_penn_reels_service_centre-870.html

Mick's a reallly helpful chap but its best to actually phone him rather than email as things will be a bit speedier. Talk to him about your drag problem. I'm sure he'll be able to help in some way and the drag stack will be a whole lot cheaper than getting one from the states.
I don't think the sleeve play effects the reel's performance too much though those better qualified on here will know better than me. For me it just improved the feel of the reel and, apart from converting all my Senators to left hand wind, it's the only non-standard mod i've done. For U.K fishing, they seem to fish fine as standard( properly assembled and serviced as per advice on here),and the 6/0 will probably cope with anything we've got. I hope to get up to Scotland and give mine a work out on some Common skate soon.
On the smaller reels such as the Jigmaster, i have installed one of Alan's s/s sleeves and a 'power' handle on my favourite 501 leftie and it does 'feel' firmer. It probably in the mind but it's a sweet reel.
Yes, i hope to be out at the week-end and as much of next week as the winds allow.

[Greybadger]

Thanks Jeff, I'll call him tomorrow, looks like he's an agent for Penn in the UK so bodes well. I will probably end up also ordering the SS gear sleeve and probably the gears too from the US...just heard from my skipper to confirm Fridays booking and they had a 100lb-er today and one of the other boats took a 160lb-er, so they're certainly out there at the moment.

And an Oban skate would certainly give your reel a work-out!

If I go ahead and get all these extra bits for the 114, and assuming they actually solve my issues with it, I'll post back with some photos of the additions being fitted.

Many thanks to everyone on here to who's contributed.

Mark.

[Jerseymic]

Hi Mark,

It is difficult to get through to Mick at times on the phone, as he is a very busy guy.

He has an answerphone so you can leave a message.

If I believe correctly, with the scaling down of Pure Fishing in the U.K., Mick has taken on the load, and he is a one man band, spares servicing the lot.

He is one of the nicest and most helpful guys out there, and his knowledge of Penn parts is incredible.

Mick

[jeff smith]

Thanks Jeff, I'll call him tomorrow, looks like he's an agent for Penn in the UK so bodes well. I will probably end up also ordering the SS gear sleeve and probably the gears too from the US...just heard from my skipper to confirm Fridays booking and they had a 100lb-er today and one of the other boats took a 160lb-er, so they're certainly out there at the moment.

And an Oban skate would certainly give your reel a work-out!

If I go ahead and get all these extra bits for the 114, and assuming they actually solve my issues with it, I'll post back with some photos of the additions being fitted.

Many thanks to everyone on here to who's contributed.

Mark.

Good luck with it Mark, i'm sure you'll get it sorted.
160!!, wow, that's good news indeed. I had a 94" blue inside my Warrior 175 last year which was estimated at over the 'ton' but, things were a bit crowded to say the least, and i now prefer to t bar them off at the side of the boat.

[jonnou]

Now I am worried about my gear it has the insert like you say but is definitly raised
Just getting Mine back together hoping not to have the same problems though
Good luck
Looks like you got the right guys Interested

[Shark Hunter]

Jon,
I can send you a gear to replace yours. Just the shipping. I am finally caught up on all my pay it forward's, except for one 114H gear set for Jason to Australia. I have several that are like new.
Just PM me your address and we can see what it will cost.
Daron

[jonnou]

WOW thanks Daron
But I just reassembled (minus one bridge screw) tested and got 11kgs 24lbs with some in  the bank
smooth as
I am pretty sure that it is a poorly manufactured gear
but it isn't affecting performance much
I ran a round file around the  ID of thefirst carbon fiber washer
and last eared washer is about .5 inside gear so no clearance issues
I am getting a care package sent from the states soon.(need some JB hollow for the 80w)
Thanks for the Offer
Now we have to find out what is wrong with the GreyBadger's