alvey 651c5

wallacewt · December 14, 2014, 03:19:09 AM

hi michaelc,there is a warning from alvey not to use mono unless it is non strech.
line catching on the knob
never thought of that,i havent got that far
thats another reason why you cant use a t-bar
i cant see a problem,the bottom of the knob is sitting below the lip.
DRAG.
i changed the red fibres for c/f, 0.8, 4 in the stack.will be 0.5 in the reel deal
delrin under the a/r ratchet,another on top of the ratchet
another delrin on top of that,that was silly,i cut 2 so i put it in
there is a lot of room when you build your stack
delrin,inner eared, c/f,outer ear,c/f,i/e,/c/f,o/e,c/f,i/e,rubber,red fibre,ss flat washer.43lb of drag.
single a/r dog,i stopped, this is not what the final stack will look like,its all for fun

[/U
i had to tie a bimini,palomar,125lb snap,its getting serious,notice the tooth pick on the scales,its serious.cheers
CORRECTION!the stem of the knob is below the lip,i had 20 drops with 6 0z sinker,5ft rod 6 casts,no probs,i wont be casting it thats for sure
to be cont;

michaelc · December 14, 2014, 05:39:54 AM

Hi Wallace, I was in contact with Alvey several years ago about buying a replacement spool and to my surprise a reply came from the owner of the company. He said that there was only a couple of cases of this happening and being the deep spool version any effect is increased by much more line capacity, the recommendation as I recall was more about spooling tension than anything else. These reels were designed before low stretch mono or braid was made and no such warning was issued until more recently.

Line twist is one issue with the Alveys but this is fixed with a swivel above the rig.

wallacewt · December 22, 2014, 10:46:59 AM

the lever drag parts arrived today from alvey
just a quick put together

6th from right is the drag lever,it has a clicker bar,1st pic;
7th is the tygaflor washer .3mm,very slippery,
8th is the clicker
bottom row
shaft tube with large delrin washer,interferes with nothing,ratchet is under.
delrin washer?next
inner eared washer
large tygaflor washer,.3mm
eared /w
.5 c/fwasher
correct order is right to left(top)
then, left to right
other 3 pics is position of the drag lever
off,1/2, full drag.20lb at this stage
5 clicks=4lb 15 clicks=10lb 25clicks=22lb
you always have freespool with this reel
no matter what the drag setting,its just the design
to be cont;

wallacewt · December 24, 2014, 04:41:31 AM

sry about the pics
had a little play around with the drag
got 33lb at full,i can get more,still got freespool.
at 33lb when you engage you start at 8lb drag
another few weeks of testing still to go

wallacewt · January 15, 2015, 04:08:35 AM

sent the reel off to rothmar2 for
double dogging.he is going to keep it a while
and maybe fish the tuna season
be interesting if he gets the reel smooth and working

fIsHsTiiCkS · January 15, 2015, 08:19:45 AM

To bad about the pics, would love to see it. Keep up the good work! Love to see the finish project.

Bryan Young · January 15, 2015, 04:30:31 PM

Awe, darn Photobucket. come one...we want to see pics.

Rothmar2 · January 15, 2015, 07:44:06 PM

I can add pix when I get the reel. This will be interesting for me as I haven't touched an Alvey for over 20yrs.
Will be taking this one to work with me, hopefully will really make this a brute of a reel.

Shark Hunter · January 15, 2015, 08:33:19 PM

The pics use to be there. I only see the very first one now.

Rothmar2 · February 10, 2015, 12:56:29 PM

Ok, so I got the reel mid January. I didn't get a chance to have much of a look at it prior to going to work, just a quick look to ask a couple of Q's to Wallace for the direction to take this.

He wanted synchronized dogs, to up the strength of the set-up. In the following pics you will see how I am going about this, but there are a couple of caveats I will point out. Firstly, the main shaft is bronze/brass or similar. So too is the Sleeve with the A/R gear. This A/R gear has 5 teeth, so it was going to be impossible to place the second dog directly opposite the original one to balance the the side load on the main shaft with the drag slipping. Will this have any long term effect? It remains to be seen.
Wallace claims 33lb at this stage. I'm not sure I'd be too keen to put this amount of drag through this reel on a hot running fish. I'm confident, with the extra dog, and a slight resultant un-balanced load on the main shaft, it could take sustained 20lb. Still plenty of stopping power regardless.

Anyway onto some pics.....

I spent a fair bit of time just looking at where I was going to place the extra dog which Wallace has sent me. In this photo, the ratchet is on the left (triangular piece) and this operates on a plastic wheel which presses onto the underside of the spool, and can be removed. It sits slightly higher than the A/R dogs. There is a "tygaflor" washer that separates the ratchet and A/R wheels. There is a lever on the reverse side of this backing plate which slides the A/R trip bush to lift the dog off the A/R wheel. This allows the spool to spin freely backwards should you wish to feed a live bait to a fish, or run a lure out behind a boat etc etc, without turning the whole spool to the casting position. Just watch your fingers on the crank knob! I will get more pics of the assembled reel later.

Fine tuned the position on the dog post, centre pop the location and drill.

I was limited to where I could position this post. There is a flatbar frame support which you can see on the reverse side of the backing plate. It's 3mm thick. I wanted the post to pass through this flatbar for strength. The hole drilled is 4mm.

Machined up a post. The spigot going into the flatbar was a slightly over sized for a press fit.

Line up post.....
Then drive it home pressing it in with a dolly and a bench vice

Now rough mark where I need to file the extra dog back to, to get them to drop in synchronized. The dog just clears the nut with plenty of clearance over the A/R wheel, so it will still allow free spool.

Begin filing the new dog to shape

Take it easy, with frequent checks between filing strokes until both dogs drop in together.

Now I wanted to maintain the reel's ability to Freespool. I've started on making a joining piece that will connect the dog lifting bush with the ability to lift the new dog. I've had to remake the slider piece that the lever
acts on to move this bush, out of stainless. The original chromed brass one was not going to work for me and I had to drill it out. I will be able to re-use the brass bush though.

I know to those that are not familiar with these reels, you may be wondering what I'm doing where at the moment. Bear with me, you will eventually see what the outcome will be. To those that do know these reels, you probably wondering "why bother doing this to one of these?".

Only answer I have; someone asked, I said it could be done.

More to come......

Slazmo · February 10, 2015, 01:02:01 PM

Great idea!!!

I would change out the brass drag washers for Stainless Steel and get some new Teflon washers cut. I worked with Glenn Alvey to get my 650 & my 500C's upto scratch drag wise, my 500C is something of a whiting / bream specialist reel - drag is absolutely indescribable TBH.

This project looks interesting.

A mixture of Nickle Anti seize and Inox MX3 works wonders on the shaft on Alveys!

My biggest issue is with Mono and putting line onto a Alvey from LBG or similar under too much tension, spools splitting down the middle... Soon after a fish is caught you need to cast the line and put it back under normal pressure.

Rothmar2 · February 10, 2015, 01:11:21 PM

Quote from: Slazmo on February 10, 2015, 01:02:01 PM
Great idea!!!

I would change out the brass drag washers for Stainless Steel and get some new Teflon washers cut. I worked with Glenn Alvey to get my 650 & my 500C's upto scratch drag wise, my 500C is something of a whiting / bream specialist reel - drag is absolutely indescribable TBH.

This project looks interesting.

A mixture of Nickle Anti seize and Inox MX3 works wonders on the shaft on Alveys!

I'll leave Wallace to decide if he wants to go all stainless on the drags, but it would be the way to go.
I'll be lapping all the brass washers at this stage as the drag is a little lumpy. I have also machined a delrin washer to go under the sleeve to replace the fibre washer that was there. Not sure if the fibre was standard or not.

wallacewt · February 11, 2015, 05:22:30 AM

hi rothmar2
i think i left everything in its original form as
far as i can remember.i wanted you to have a free go.
not be burdened by my thoughts.i cant do what you can.
drag,handle, line,rod,etc;etc; we can toss around on AT site.
everyone on here can participate if they want to after
you have finished.
salzmo has already started with the ss washers
thats a given,i think the 650 will fit the 651
where did you get them salzmo? i have the c/f washers
they may still be in the reel
there will be no mono on this reel
i already have 1000mx80lb. 20lb of drag seems about perfect
there is no hurry and chris can test the reel when its done
its a good project that may or may not work
but we are trying
cheers

Slazmo · February 13, 2015, 12:45:24 AM

Quote from: wallacewt on February 11, 2015, 05:22:30 AM
salzmo has already started with the ss washers
thats a given,i think the 650 will fit the 651
where did you get them salzmo? i have the c/f washers
they may still be in the reel

I would just order the washers from Alvey themselves and get them shipped wherever in the world you are.

trying to cut eared washers.... nah i'd rather go out and do gardening work...

Rothmar2 · February 13, 2015, 01:02:41 PM

Got the dog trip mechanism finished today. Still have one more post to make and press in for the extra dog spring. Wallace, I will be beefing up the spring wire a little to make for more positive engagement for the dogs, the original one does not always drop in with the wire provided.
The slide piece was made from 0.8mm stainless sheet. The guide from 3mm flat bar, with a carefully filed slot to keep the slide on track. There is no slack at all. The little tab has a hole to take one end of the new dog's spring.
I re-used the brass piece that trips the original dog, you can see I have left a little length in the new stainless
slider post. I will eventually drill down a little further and dremel the excess off, and give it a tap with a punch to flare the end to lock the brass piece in place.

Dogs engaged

Dogs tripped

The slider lever.

Had to carefully pry the end of the lever up high enough to clear the slider post to be able to swap them out. The backing plate buckled a little, but I was able to carefully level it all back out.

So far have put about 8 hours into this mod, but the tedious part is now over.