Lever Drag Abuse

[Rivverrat]

I'm getting conflicting responses to this question. The situation that comes up is fishing closely around log jams & inside submerged cover I am needing high drag output to pull fish over a 100 lbs from structure. My sights are set on our state  record flathead which weighed 123 lbs. This is straight "tug of war" type fishing.

My question, how bad of an effect would fishing a reel such as a 40 LD2 Torque or Fathom at sunset / max, initially after hook set, then immediately after fish is clear of structure backing the lever down to an acceptable level. 
I have heard everything from "you'll trash the bearings after 2 outings" or the reel will do fine for a summer. I understand there is no hard answer for this. I'm needing 3 reels for this  use here at home.   
   I dont mind replacing bearings. But I'm not wanting to do it every week.  Most of these fish I'm after are untouched by rod & reel.

Any suggestions Or answers appreciated.

[Shark Hunter]

River rat,
I'm not trying to be funny, but I think you need a bigger reel that can take that abuse over and over.
123lb is a big cat!, but its small for a Shark.

[Bryan Young]

I'm getting conflicting responses to this question. The situation that comes up is fishing closely around log jams & inside submerged cover I am needing high drag output to pull fish over a 100 lbs from structure. My sights are set on our state  record flathead which weighed 123 lbs. This is straight "tug of war" type fishing.

My question, how bad of an effect would fishing a reel such as a 40 LD2 Torque or Fathom at sunset / max, initially after hook set, then immediately after fish is clear of structure backing the lever down to an acceptable level. 
I have heard everything from "you'll trash the bearings after 2 outings" or the reel will do fine for a summer. I understand there is no hard answer for this. I'm needing 3 reels for this  use here at home.   
   I dont mind replacing bearings. But I'm not wanting to do it every week.  Most of these fish I'm after are untouched by rod & reel.

Any suggestions Or answers appreciated.

What # test line will you be using and what drag setting are you planning to use.

[alantani]

i can think of only one way to reliably do this.  the old orginal avet 4/0 two speeds had a "lock" button that would lock the spool.  that's the only way in can figure that this would work.  the only other way would be to shove a wooden wedge the size of a door stop in between the leading edge of the spool and the frame to lock the spool.  that would be the easiest and cheapest way to lock the spool. 

now, these fish have clearly been landed before.  is there a way to find out how many pounds of drag is required to pull these cats out of their holes?

[Rivverrat]

Shark Hunter, you of course are speaking the truth. I know what I'm wanting is outside of whats available. What I'm wanting is silly in when lined up to whats out there. But I'm hoping against all good sense that some thing may work.

Alan, yes of course these fish have been brought to hand. But under the conditions I describe & gear used it is mostly luck. You bring up something that I'd forgotten about. That is locking the spool. I think I'll pass on your door stop idea.
I also hope you understand I'm aware I dont need this level of drag for the regular catching of these fish. These fish dont strip yards of line off. Pound for pound once hooked they just dont fight as long as some of the fish you all have available. Immediately after being hooked they blow up, when in shallow water, do a back & forth out front sideways thing, finishing the fight. Blue cats & Flathead over 50 lbs. are caught in open water on 6500's frequently.

These fish dont ever travel real far, have a high fat content, there eyes favor the top of their, their tail is not forked, their head is ramp or wedge shaped. They are built for quick, explosive ambush from below.

You   ask the million dollar question, how much drag is needed in these conditions for these fish.....Not enough people fish the conditions I describe with rod & reel to know. Few want to. These fish laugh at my 25N's. Not enough there to turn their head & get them in the open water. In open water I've yet to have any not brought to shore in 10 minutes or less. My biggest an 83 lb. Blue fought hard but not long. 

Brian, 80 lb. test would be the bottom end. 130 would start giving me some confidence. 

[Tightlines667]

An Avet T-Rex Quad drag 50 class reel spooled with 130 jb holo core and a 130lb mono topshot would give you stopping power.  You would probably want a short, heavy, low stretch abrasion-resistent mono topshot, and a stiff heavy rod to minimize distance loss at strike.  I know you will need a solid through-gunnel rid mount if you are going to start with high drag settings at strike.  This setup would not be cheap though. 

Larger reels with bigger spool diameters will give you more bang.   You are probably going to want a reel with a large diameter spool, low gear ratio, and steep drag curve.   Avets, and FinNors fit this bill.   
Getting rid of the reel altogether and fishing a straight handline would also work.  I've caught 500lb+sharks, and 120lb Pacific Jacks on Handline gear, where the fish could not take an inch of line.  Doesn't work so well on 150lb+tuna, or 250lb+Marlin though.  Hydro reels would certainly make quick work of your cats.  But wheres the fun in that?

[Topshot]

I run Baja specials with 130 JB hollow for flat fishing here in Arizona and couldn't ask for a better reel. I know it's not lever drag but im not a huge lever drag fan for casting live bait. I've hooked flats with locked down drag on the Baja specials and have never had a problem.

[Shark Hunter]

Top Shot would know. He is the flatcat daddy!
Tightlines idea of the quad T-rex would get the job done if you don't mind spending $800 for a reel.
I think Everyone knows where I'm going with this.

[Topshot]

The reason I didn't like lever drags was because it would cast larger size baits just fine, say a candy carp or a 1+lb bluegill but if you cast anything less then a palm size gill it just never seemed to cast right

[Rivverrat]

Man I cant believe I found some place where people not only give consideration to this scenario.....but also grasp the concept.
I love to fish. I own my own business so I can fish every day it's not winter. Even in winter I go out a lot & fish for cats. I was beginning to wonder if you might be thinking I was a little off as in crazy. Which my X wife would tell you would be the truth of the matter.

Tightlines, your thoughts are right on regarding equipment.While I dont mind spending money on reels the T-Rex is bit much for no more than I would fish this scenario. I also would eventually like 3 reels for the situation I've described.

Shark Hunter you have a reel for sale?......   Clue me in.    

Topshot, I'm not sold on the lever drag myself. This Andros I have is the first I've owned or fished with hard. It does some things I like & some I hate. It's being sent back to Okuma to see what can be done.
Please dont take this wrong I'm in no way meaning to be a smart @$$. The Baja & it's newer version is one I've been looking at pretty hard. Mainly because I believe more drag is available over stock.
Have you fished the scenario I've described?
With fish over 60 lbs. being caught on the 113 in these conditions I describe ?
How much drag are you getting with your Baja with a full spool ?
Sounds like your happy with how the Baja cast.
I've never been able to completely lock down a Senator reel with the drag. I know this may not be exactly what you meant.  

Info of this type is valuable to me.
95% of the time my Fathom star drags will do everything I need.

I appreciate the consideration & help here with what my X referred to as "My Sickness"......Jeff

[Shark Hunter]

Jeff,
We all have the same sickness Buddy. I am a Senator Man through and through and I think that is what you need to accomplish your goal. A Big Heavy Reel for a Big Heavy Fish.
The bang for the buck, I think you will be laughing and Not those big Cats!
I really like bringing a Gun to a Gun Fight!
Just My opinion..

[Bryan Young]

For your type of fishing, like Alan, the older Avet EX40/2 or was it 4/02.  It's slightly bigger than a 4/0 reel but has a stop pin that locks into the ratchet plate and stops the spool in its tracks. 

[Rivverrat]

Brian I'm going to look into this Avet you speak of.

But Shark Hunter keeps smacking me with the truth. I've had a hankering for an honest American made reel. I love classic Old stuff. That is still made & works. I can buy an American made 113 N, push the drag maybe? to 35 lbs. or more & see what happens.
Because right now I'm not fishing these log jams up close because of all the frustration I've experienced through the years attempting it & not having gear that was capable....     Regardless I will still be way below the cost of an HX Raptor, Makaira etc. The Senators seem to be  the Chevy 350 or John M Browning design (Pick One)  of the fishing world.

Well I'm off to see what can be done about the drag on the newer U.S. made 113N.
Did'nt Cal sheets do a bit of work on these drags?   

[Bryan Young]

Riverrat,

This is the type of Avet you should be looking for.  If you look at this picture, you will need a little button on the bottom of the reel.  That is the spool lock pin.

If you are looking into star drags, I believe the US113N is capable of 28# of drag.  Not sure if there is a way to effectively bump it up to 35# of drag.  

Another reel to consider if you can find them are Shimano's Ocea 4000 and 5000 reels.  Many of them came with a slide switch on the left side plate that will prevent the spool from letting line out.  That was used to essentially let the angler do a dead pull without losing any line.  I cannot seem to find a picture for this one though.

Good luck in your hunt.
Bryan

[alantani]

high tech would be an old avet 4/0 with a spool stopper button.  old school would be a narrow 6/0 with a wooden door stop.  i would bet, though, that a buttoned down 6/0 with 200# spectra and a short 150# topshot would do the job without the door stop!