vintage 12/0

[Penn Chronology]

Hello Everyone, good to be back. Seems like there are some good solutions to old problems and a little bending of history going on.

Thanks Ray. Now, my No 17 full size catalog has been stamped  Apr 1955 Grin, I know they run one year late.

I have tried over the years to draw lines as to when catalogs, boxes, reels. lubes and all the Penn products were made. Sometimes, knowing exact dates for product introduction and discontinuation is not as exact a science as I would like it to be.

I always think of Lighthouse boxes finishing up in 1949 but I am sure that they were sold until their stock was depleted, so that 1949 date is not written in stone.

              The constant state of confusion in the World of Penn reels is not unique to the brand. Basically it is fairly common for the history of fishing reel brands to have confusing and very elusive trails of genealogy. As confusing as the evolution of Penn can be, it really is not nearly as confusing as other older brands. Penn if fairly cut and dry as to its founder and creator and the flow of family ownership from 1932 to 2003. If you start to study other brands like Ocean City, you start to see a company that was created from numbers of other companies, basically the existence of a company like Ocean City is based on a Corporate Merger, rather than having a single founder like Penn has.

I sort of like the confusion at times. It creates speculations and makes the collector think. Sometimes it causes interesting discussions that result in discoveries of things you were not looking for when the discussion began. What made me want to look into Penn were all the unanswered questions. if all things at Penn would have been fully and exactly documented, there would be no questions and that would be boring.............

Catalog 17 spans two years, (1952 and 1953), I like to think I discovered that that or at least reasoned it out.

On page 1 of the color #16 catalog, Penn welcomes their readers to the 1951 catalog. The logical next step is to think of the #17 catalog as a 1952. It does have a Grander Marlin catch on the front cover dated August, 1952, so chronological reasoning would date this catalog as a late 1952 issue, but then I open this color cover #17 catalog and read Mr. John Egly's letter, to the customers on page 1, welcoming them to the contents of the new 1953 catalog! So what happened to 1952? The answer is there is no answer. The best solution is hypothesis, which can always be believed or contested, depending on the interpreter.

[Superhook]

It was a change not to get the smack when the teacher came back to class this time. ............It's not easy stayin' outta trouble.

[Penn Chronology]

It was a change not to get the smack when the teacher came back to class this time. Grin............It's not easy stayin' outta trouble.

No way, Ray!!. We are a team, you are never in trouble.

[Alto Mare]

You guys couldn't get into trouble if you try.

I understand what you're saying Mike, I just want to point out that one of my favorite catalog, no 21, the very first sentence is: "In this 1958 catalog".
The front page shows a 1005 Lbs Black Marlin caught with a 14/0 Penn Senator, the date stamped on the fish was 12-12-55.

Sal

I had no idea that Scotts had these posted:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx
no 18 shows 1953, just as you've mentioned, numbers still don't match thought, compared to the no 21
These probably didn't come out yearly.


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Maxed Out]

It was a change not to get the smack when the teacher came back to class this time. ............It's not easy stayin' outta trouble.

   Ray, you only get the smack when you stir up a bunch of trouble...............please don't ask me how I know 

[Penn Chronology]

I had a couple reels with the light house box come through my hands and could kick myself for selling them, both had the reels stored in those bags.
But as Ted mentioned, I have seen them in other boxes, I actually sent one to Mike with the red spool. Grin

First I want to apologize to Sal. I should have mentioned this when you sent it to me but it slipped by me because of all the other activities I was involved in, so I want to say """THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE REEL BAG"".


You did put the Red spool in the bag, which at the time I though was a very cool way to package a Penn spool, so the significance of the packaging slipped by at that time, but it should not have. These bags are great Penn collectibles that sort of just slip by many collectors. They are pre-war items that were included with the leather reels cases in the early 1940's. BTW, these leather cases are very sought after and very elusive.
--scanned from #9--1941 Penn catalog.

I suspect that there were more bags bought by Penn than leather reel cases because as the reel case ran out and just disappeared from the catalogs, they must have had bags left over, so they started putting them in with high end reels of the day, the same way they used to included a plastic bag with some reels. Keeping your reels in soft reel bags was a faddish thing to do back then. I remember sewing up my own, when I was a kid. Of course my old bags where not as neatly sewn as this old bag.

This old bag has a nice, round bottom (somehow that doesn't sound right). Did I just violate the 12 year old rule?

Anyways, thanks to Sal, I have one of these old bags in my collection.

Thanks again Sal!!

[coastal_dan]

Yet another fun and informative series of posts.  Funny how a bag can be so interesting!  Uh oh, don't ever tell our women we talk like this about a bag.

Mike - I like your catalog series you have there under the bag, looks quite extensive.  Any reasoning behind the bag being on the No.10 cover page?  I might be looking too deep into things as of late...

[Penn Chronology]

Mike - I like your catalog series you have there under the bag, looks quite extensive.  Any reasoning behind the bag being on the No.10 cover page?  I might be looking too deep into things as of late...

That was very perceptive. The binder that bag is sitting on is my first volume of Penn catalogs and ephemera. It starts at 1932 and goes to 1972. It is a massive 4 inch binder that is ready to burst. There is a second volume that goes to 2013. These binders contain mostly originals, not copies, of Penn stuff. I have all Penn catalogs except for the 1932 and 1933. Those I have copies  and  / or photographs of.

The bag is sitting on the #10 catalog because that is the last catalog these bags and leathers cases were featured in, so the #10 catalog is not an accidental event. I did that to see if anyone would pick up on it and you did. If this was a contest or a test you would have won the first prize.....

       The cases and bags made their first showing in the #6--1938 Penn catalog. The marketing in 1938 allowed someone to order the bag only or the case which came with a bag. The bags could be ordered separately in 1938 only. So, these bags and cases were offered in the catalogs in a few different ways from Catalog #6 (1938)to Catalog #10 (1942). In Catalog #11 (1946), both the bag and leather case were no longer available.

[Penn Chronology]

I had no idea that Scotts had these posted:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx
no 18 shows 1953, just as you've mentioned, numbers still don't match thought, compared to the no 21 Undecided
These probably didn't come out yearly.

Sal,

The people at Scotts have my book. I have seen the chronological progression they choose to publish, let me just say this, "we agree to disagree". Their catalog yearly release flow does not make sense to me, but, that is just me. The information is the same, just the issue dates are somewhat different. Another collector gave Scotts the information they have posted and that was posted before my book was released.

[Penn Chronology]

Uh oh, don't ever tell our women we talk like this about a bag. Tongue

Ha, They already know, but, they let us slide and will use this against us in the future if we give them reason. 

[Tightlines667]

I had no idea that Scotts had these posted:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/History.aspx
no 18 shows 1953, just as you've mentioned, numbers still don't match thought, compared to the no 21 Undecided
These probably didn't come out yearly.

Sal,

The people at Scotts have my book. I have seen the chronological progression they choose to publish, let me just say this, "we agree to disagree". Their catalog yearly release flow does not make sense to me, but, that is just me. The information is the same, just the issue dates are somewhat different. Another collector gave Scotts the information they have posted and that was posted before my book was released.

I admit..I am getting a bit confused regarding the catelog date discrepancies  

I just sent a pretty big print job to my work computer.  Regardless of release date discrepancies, my currently printing catalogs are going into a binder of my own, and should make for a valuable resource.  

Mike,
Would it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT?  Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do?  But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books.  Can't hurt to ask..right?

[Penn Chronology]

Would it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT?  Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do?  But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books.  Can't hurt to ask..right? Huh?

A project I am currently working at is a source book. Scanning catalogs and posting those scans here sounds like an endless project, even my source book will not have complete catalog scans. There are over 2000 pages for the catalogs alone and if we included, schematics, ephemera, letters, photographs, etc, etc, I do not know if I will live long enough to complete the job.

I honestly want to share as much as I can, but, I have to be realistic. Posting all my material here would be too much for me.

[Alto Mare]

I had a couple reels with the light house box come through my hands and could kick myself for selling them, both had the reels stored in those bags.
But as Ted mentioned, I have seen them in other boxes, I actually sent one to Mike with the red spool. Grin

First I want to apologize to Sal. I should have mentioned this when you sent it to me but it slipped by me because of all the other activities I was involved in, so I want to say """THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE REEL BAG"".


You did put the Red spool in the bag, which at the time I though was a very cool way to package a Penn spool, so the significance of the packaging slipped by at that time, but it should not have. These bags are great Penn collectibles that sort of just slip by many collectors. They are pre-war items that were included with the leather reels cases in the early 1940's. BTW, these leather cases are very sought after and very elusive.
--scanned from #9--1941 Penn catalog.

I suspect that there were more bags bought by Penn than leather reel cases because as the reel case ran out and just disappeared from the catalogs, they must have had bags left over, so they started putting them in with high end reels of the day, the same way they used to included a plastic bag with some reels. Keeping your reels in soft reel bags was a faddish thing to do back then. I remember sewing up my own, when I was a kid. Of course my old bags where not as neatly sewn as this old bag.

This old bag has a nice, round bottom (somehow that doesn't sound right). Did I just violate the 12 year old rule?

Anyways, thanks to Sal, I have one of these old bags in my collection.

Thanks again Sal!!

There is no need to thank me Mike, it was nothing.

Yet another fun and informative series of posts.  Funny how a bag can be so interesting!  Uh oh, don't ever tell our women we talk like this about a bag.

Mike - I like your catalog series you have there under the bag, looks quite extensive.  Any reasoning behind the bag being on the No.10 cover page?  I might be looking too deep into things as of late...

Catalogs are fun to collect, I have most myself, but still hunting a couple of them down. Knowing that Mike is also still looking for some is not good news for me .
Here are mine, I also have a 4" folder, but I'm sure these are no way close to mike, as for condition.
http://i.imgur.com/10AIuNn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qHhZhtq.jpg
Let me warn you that from the 16 down, they could get quite expensive...good luck!

Would it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT?  Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do?  But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books.  Can't hurt to ask..right? Huh?

A project I am currently working at is a source book. Scanning catalogs and posting those scans here sounds like an endless project, even my source book will not have complete catalog scans. There are over 2000 pages for the catalogs alone and if we included, schematics, ephemera, letters, photographs, etc, etc, I do not know if I will live long enough to complete the job.

I honestly want to share as much as I can, but, I have to be realistic. Posting all my material here would be too much for me.

You've asked for quite a bit there John ...Mike, I don't blame you .
 

[Tightlines667]

Would it be difficult to share scanned copies of your catelogs, and advertisement/promotional resources here on AT?  Not sure if this is something you think would be useful/appropriate, or something you would even want to do?  But I am sure you must have numerous resources/sources that you have accumulated while researching info for your books.  Can't hurt to ask..right? Huh?

A project I am currently working at is a source book. Scanning catalogs and posting those scans here sounds like an endless project, even my source book will not have complete catalog scans. There are over 2000 pages for the catalogs alone and if we included, schematics, ephemera, letters, photographs, etc, etc, I do not know if I will live long enough to complete the job.

I honestly want to share as much as I can, but, I have to be realistic. Posting all my material here would be too much for me.

Mike,

Understood  

I wonder if there is money in the AT budget to hire an intern or 'sorcerer's apprentice' to handle this sort of thing?

I think I speak for everyone when I say..We are very happy to have you here, and are most content to soak up whatever knowledge, and wisdom you are able to bestow upon us.  

I imagine you are a busy man, so we do appreciate any time you spend on the forum.

Sal,

Cool, and valuable, collection of catalogs there.  When it comes to Penn stuff, I am beginning to wonder what exactly you don't already have.  

[Jerseymic]

I thank you also Mike for everything you have brought here.

Mike.