US113/113N Baja Special R&D

[Keta]

C clips are not really going to work due to space restrictions, the gear or delrin washer holds the dog down well.  The reel I'm using is not mine so I can't grind the flange on the bottom of the gearsleeve but I could cut a thicker ratchet and have a counter bore turned on a lathe and do the same thing.  A raised section on the bridge under the AR dog could helpkeep the dog from deflecting under the ratchet

The reel I'm using is not mine and I can't/won't silver solder or alter the bridge.  Dropping $30.00 for a bridge w/gearsleeve I might destroy is not going to happen.  I might try to cut a thick AR dog and grind it so the spring can fit under it.

Of course Lee gets first, second, third vote, and tie break(plus he counts the votes),  since he is stepping up to design and make the test parts.

This is a group project and any input will be considered.  I might even "force" myself to get a US113N.  

[jurelometer]

jurelometer, thanks for that answer.  
My thoughts are after the improved gear thicker than factory dogs might be an advantage. One could play with shims/washers to find what thickness would work.


The spring issue, could heavier gauge wire be used for this spring to achieve better results?   There just doesn't seem to be enough room for a pull type spring or much of anything I could think of.

I think that order to make the ratchet  significantly thicker, it has to be hollowed out to clear the stuff underneath it.  My guess is that there is not enough room to do that without increasing the outside diameter of the ratchet.   But probably not enough room  to clear the dog posts.  So the spring lifts the dog up to the ratchet, but does not support it.  Making a super thick dog is an clever idea.  The key is providing surfaces on both sides of the dog so that it will always lie flat.  A washer or thick dog could have a notch to allow the spring  arrangement to be the same.

From Scotts:



A wider undergear washer is a good idea, but since the dog is diving under the ratchet, this is not the primary problem

I posted a formula for calculating the force on the dog post for a given drag setting.  I'll bet that it is sufficient to pull out a dog post if it is  pushing up the post at an angle (dog tilted).  If I can find it, I'll post  the actual load for this reel here.  Every time the dog engages at at angle, it is like a hammer tapping a punch up on the dog post.

Of course Lee gets first, second, third vote, and tie break(plus he counts the votes),  since he is stepping up to design and make the test parts.

So I found the tool.  The force on the dog (assuming 2.75 spool/line diameter + 25 lbs drag)  is around 400 lbs- if my math is correct (odds: 50/50 .   Now if this force is directed up and out instead of sideways- tap tap tap, every time the dog engages- this will be tough on a press fit post. It should lever out at some point.  I'm liking Riverrat's idea of a a real fat dog more and more.

The calculator is here:  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14241.msg145318#msg145318

-J


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[jurelometer]

Of course Lee gets first, second, third vote, and tie break(plus he counts the votes),  since he is stepping up to design and make the test parts.

This is a group project and any input will be considered.  I might even "force" myself to get a US113N.   

But seriously,  thanks for doing this.  Otherwise it is just a bunch of us talking.   

[1Forecon]

Yea, I don't have one either. Just saw the posts and the original AT photo and saw where one dog was chewed up like RR at the tip. I think if penn went all the way down on the sleeve like Newell's and the newer 2nd gen SS sleeves in production, they could've gotten the ratchet to sit down flat and not be elevated and therefore trying to match the height difference with the dogs.

I didn't actually mean for you to chop up someone else's gear sleeve, I guess I wrote that wrong.oops!

If the ratchet laid flat against the bridge then your thinner ss dogs would work and maybe room for the small c-clips or not. In that case with a smaller dog(thinner) maybe shorter posts.

This would be of course with something you could modify to try(not someone else's stuff). I hope I'm not hurting the effort, just thinking out loud.

I really was contemplating one but as soon as I saw these problems a while back I decided to build a YTS tank of my own.

Hope you guys get it figured out, seems to be the only weak link.

[Keta]

I didn't actually mean for you to chop up someone else's gear sleeve, I guess I wrote that wrong.oops!

You brought up another possible cure, if it was my reel I might do it.

[steelfish]

I didn't actually mean for you to chop up someone else's gear sleeve, I guess I wrote that wrong.oops!

You brought up another possible cure, if it was my reel I might do it.

Lee if you need a gear sleeve to modify I have available, but it don't have the dog posts, if it still good for you to make changes and tests I can send it to you.

It's the one on this thread
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14398.msg147513#msg147513

Since if was damaged on the dog posts  it was going to the trash but I keep it for the gear sleeve.
As spare when needed
Maybe you can made some SS posts and put them on it with epoxic to make it work.

Let me know

Return it when you finish all tests ..if got broken on the process at least it don't belong to a working reel.

[Keta]

Let's see if we can do a drop in fix first.

[steelfish]

Sounds good Lee, just wanted to let you know

[Rivverrat]

Lee if your needing a Bridge or anything to help out speak up. I will get a hold of Scott's & get one or two sent to you. I very much want to see this issue fixed in the most reasonable right & economical manner. No need for you to absorb all the R&D cost that those of who want this will benefit from.  

With the ratchet gear you come up with along with a thicker dog or dog used with delrin washer, this may be enough of an arrangement to get us where we want to be. But that still leaves the spring. If someone posted about it I missed it.

Any thoughts on using heavier gauge wire for the spring? Or different spring arrangement...Jeff  

[Keta]

If I need one I will ask.  I'd rather see 10 or more of us put in $3.00 or less than one person footing the entire bill.  The cost of cutting and my time are free, things like this keep my mind and hands busy.... like building a pole barn by myself doesn't take up time.


HOWEVER, I'm heading to the coast this afternoon to chase albacore and visit with friends and family for a few days.

[STRIPER LOU]

Lee, again I appreciate you taking on this project. I'd be happy to make a contribution to help the cause and I like your idea of spreading it out among a bunch of people. Where does the R&D support need to be sent too?
Thanks again,  ..  Lou
P.S. are you making SS dog's for the Penn Squidder?

[Keta]

Not yet on the Squidder and we will wait until the "easy" fixes for the US113 are tried.  We don't want to get a lot of $ in this as I'm sure Penn is looking into it too.

[Rivverrat]

We don't want to get a lot of $ in this as I'm sure Penn is looking into it too.

My thoughts also. I can tell you Penn actively watches this sight.....Jeff

[Three se7ens]

The lip on the bottom of the gear sleeve cannot be ground off. That lip is what opposes the force the drag star places on the drag stack. Without that lip, tightening the drag star would force the main gear into contact with the bridge, and put the entire load onto the slam pin that secures the gear sleeve to the bridge.

The ratchet can only go on one way. Flipping it over will result in the teeth facing the wrong direction.

My recommendation is a new ratchet with a few less teeth, and new dogs, both waterjet cut. I think this would be strong enough to shift the potential failure point elsewhere.  Remember, it doesn't have to be strong enough to stop a submarine, it just needs to be stronger than the next weakest part.

[Keta]

I have 16T ratchets with 16T specific AR dogs drawn and at the cutter now.

The more I look at this reel the more I like what Penn has done.