Low Gear Slipping Occasionally on a Titus Gold 20II

[gstours]

Ive had this reel quite a while and like it a lot, But now this problem is bugging me!

Its a Okuma Titus Gold 20II and has been painted to sort of camo it.....
The reel shifts ok, its just when under load it will sometimes slip and not crank in line.....then sometimes it seems ok. 
    What do you experts think is wrong?  I will try to fix it or send it out this fall after I get time to tear into it.  Any thoughts or similar examples of repair will be appreciated.     thanks  gst.

[Alto Mare]

Hey Gary, looks like that reel doesn't owe you a penny   . To me it sounds like normal wear and tear, just an early sign you might need new gears....I might be wrong.
Sal

[redsetta]

G'day Gary,
I've found the control pin/clutch can become a little bound up (for a number of reasons), meaning they don't fully engage the gear.
Might be worth checking at least - let us know how you get on.
Good luck, Justin

[gstours]

Hello again;  What do you mean hung up?  with the control pin clutch?  It seems to be greased, and clean. what would keep it from fully engaging?  I thought about a stronger shift spring inside the gearsleeve to put more pressure on the gear to keep it engaged. or tyr to shim something??  How could you wear out a reel?   Its got me bugged.  gst.

[Rothmar2]

Hi GST.

I have a TG50W that has a shifting issue as well, only in my case it struggles to shift gears when the reel is under load (tension on line). I have the reel opened on my desk, and will be trying to come up with a solution over the next day or so. I'm thinking of machining up a sleeve to pre-load the shift spring a little more, and hopefully this will result with more positive gear shift.
I will get some pix up if I get a positive result.

[jonnou]

Thats a fine looking reel you have there Garry. Hope you get it sorted

[Rothmar2]

OK have had a closer look at the shifting of these reels, mmm, not impressed, here is why...

Opened up the reel, removed the support bridge, one A/R dog and the gears from the support boss, to reveal the shift clutch pin.

Here is the clutch pin in the high gear position (handle shift button is "out")



And here it is in low gear (handle shift button "in"). Notice pin has moved up



This is the shifting mech removed from the handle. Note the thread for the handle nut is left handed.



The pin passes through the eyelet at the left. There are 2 springs here, an inner and outer. The outer is held between the pin eyelet, and an E-clip on the shaft. The inner spring is wound onto threads on the end of the shift shaft and the eyelet, and thus joins the shaft and eyelet together, it's weaker than the outer spring, and herein lies the problem.....

E-clip removed from shaft with outer spring slid to the right to reveal the inner. You can see its a "smaller weaker" spring.



What this means is its possible to hold the clutch pin in low gear (pin up as shown earlier) with fingers, yet the stronger outer spring will stretch the inner spring to make it look like the reel is in high gear. I was able to prove this.....replaced shift mech and the clutch pin



 If there is enough tension on the drag and thus the pinion, low gear and clutch pin , I believe this inner spring is not strong enough to pull the clutch pin back into high.
This is the problem with this particular reel. It won't shift while reel is under load.
A pretty ordinary design, and I'm still not sure how I can go about fixing it.
More pondering required!

I believe your problem is in someway related GST.

[gstours]

Thanks for your input and great photos.  Mr. Rothmar, it seems like just an an adjustment like replacing a shim or spring may be the solution.  I am bugged by the problem, and am anticipating the fun in finding the solution.  a frog eats what bugs them!  I have many other waay better and more expensive reels to use .   I am challenged by a small problem!    I will try soon to fix the problem.......I will post my findings as well.     thanks for your info,    and good fishing!

[JGB]

gstours,

The 'Skipping' of the drive pin in low gear (the square pin that goes up and down) will happen for a number of reasons.
1  The slot the drive pin is in may have a burr that it hangs up on and does not fully engage.
2 The drive pin may be worn with rounded edges ( should be square corners).
3  The springs may be stretched out from trying to pull out the shift plunger (not knowing the shift pin must be removed first).
4 The drive pin slots in the gear may be rounded off and not sharply square.

Try the following:

1 Verify the drive pin moves to the full up and down positions . If not try adjusting the springs until they do.
2 Take a fine file and clean up the shift slot  edges in the drive shaft.
3 If the slots in the gear have rounded edges you will need a new gear.
4 The drive pin may be worn. Try rotating it 90 degrees to expose new edges.

The not shifting under cranking load is normal for just about any 2 speed lever drag. While cranking the drive pin is under load and will not move until  the cranking pressure is removed. The Titus 'spring shift allow the shift button to move and it will shift once the cranking pressure is removed. Reels that use a positive shift will not allow the shift button to fully move until the cranking pressure is removed (no springs).

Jim N.

[Rothmar2]

JBG, never seemed to have trouble shifting any of the Shimano, Penn, Avet two speeds that I have personally used under regular drag tensions. These older Titus levers are the only ones I have ever encountered where you have to almost completely remove the tension to get them to shift. I switch gears a lot on 2 speeds during a battle that goes on for 1/2hr +. This TG 50W is a PITA to use in a prolonged battle. A shame, these reels could have been a much more capable reel without this problem.
  Great advice for GST though with his symptoms. I will probably put this reel into storage for a while, have too many other projects on the go at the moment.

[steelfish]

OK have had a closer look at the shifting of these reels, mmm, not impressed, here is why...

Opened up the reel, removed the support bridge, one A/R dog and the gears from the support boss, to reveal the shift clutch pin.

Here is the clutch pin in the high gear position (handle shift button is "out")



And here it is in low gear (handle shift button "in"). Notice pin has moved up



This is the shifting mech removed from the handle. Note the thread for the handle nut is left handed.



The pin passes through the eyelet at the left. There are 2 springs here, an inner and outer. The outer is held between the pin eyelet, and an E-clip on the shaft. The inner spring is wound onto threads on the end of the shift shaft and the eyelet, and thus joins the shaft and eyelet together, it's weaker than the outer spring, and herein lies the problem.....

E-clip removed from shaft with outer spring slid to the right to reveal the inner. You can see its a "smaller weaker" spring.



What this means is its possible to hold the clutch pin in low gear (pin up as shown earlier) with fingers, yet the stronger outer spring will stretch the inner spring to make it look like the reel is in high gear. I was able to prove this.....replaced shift mech and the clutch pin



 If there is enough tension on the drag and thus the pinion, low gear and clutch pin , I believe this inner spring is not strong enough to pull the clutch pin back into high.
This is the problem with this particular reel. It won't shift while reel is under load.
A pretty ordinary design, and I'm still not sure how I can go about fixing it.
More pondering required!

I believe your problem is in someway related GST.

I have the same problem with a titus 15II from a friend, its does not engage to high gear normally, maybe 2 times per every 5 try outs.

I got into the same questioning of Rothmar2 about those 2 springs.
my main question is what makes the pin to be pull/pushed to high gear when the handle shift buttom is "out"?
on TLD reels there is a small spring that goes right on top of the eyelet that send/push it to the bottom to engage high speed and when you push the handle shift buttom that pin moves to the top of the shaft activating low gear.
in this titus mechanism I dont see anything like that, so still wondering what need to me fixed in order to make the pin to move lower to activate/engage high speed firmly.

right now the reel just works in low speed, if you shift to high speed the spool doesnt move at all.