Chrome plating escapades and other short stories....

[sdlehr]

Since I used to know a lot of chemistry (two degrees, but last one was over 30 years ago, and I've been out of the field all this time) I decided to try electroplating chromium onto brass. I bought the kit from Caswell and decided to start small by plating a few sets of frame posts that were badly worn and pitted. I put a screw into the end of each, tightened up the chuck of my variable-speed drill on the screw, and started with 150 grit sandpaper -> 220 -> 320 wet sand ->500 wet ->1000 wet -> 1500 wet -> 2000 wet. This was time-consuming and was not worth the time it took, except it was a plating experiment. They didn't turn out too shabby, and they are quite a bit better than what I started with. I'm looking for things to experiment on now - will probably do some screw heads later tonight. Here's a pic of the posts as they stand now, and I may plate another layer of chrome on top of what is there now....

Sid
SE FL

[STRIPER LOU]

There's always something to play with, right Sid. Looks like your on the right track. Trim rings are what I seem to be polishing or buying all the time and that gets expensive after a while! I wanted to try some anodizing a while back. Put it on the list of things to do and never got around to it. At least its on the list.
Do you have a lot invested in the kit?
......................Lou

[sdlehr]

Do you have a lot invested in the kit?
......................Lou

Hi Lou! Nah, only about $40, and I'll save that much by saving some trim rings and some more posts, maybe play with a few spools, but I gotta get better at it first. I already progressed from poor to moderately mediocre on those posts in the picture. I'd like to get good enough at it to offer it as a service here. I'll have to learn how to reverse-plate first to remove chrome electrolytically rather than by sanding - that is what is so time-consuming.... but some sanding will likely be needed if pitted, and most of the stuff I figure I'll be working on will be pitted.  Yes, always something to play with. I have this problem with being idle.... if I wasn't working and doing this I'd probably be getting into trouble somehow

Sid

[thorhammer]

Sid, I can already hear electric screwdrivers pulling plates and spools...

"I think you're gonna need a bigger plating bath..."

[sdlehr]

Is it the cost of plating that keeps folks from replating the worn chrome? Is there another reason a replated reel should not be in a collection, or is it all personal preference and OK for collection value as long as you don't lie about it? In other words, would using replated parts diminish the value of a collectible reel? I asked this question in another thread but it got lost...

Sid

[thorhammer]

Is it the cost of plating that keeps folks from replating the worn chrome? Is there another reason a replated reel should not be in a collection, or is it all personal preference and OK for collection value as long as you don't lie about it? In other words, would using replated parts diminish the value of a collectible reel? I asked this question in another thread but it got lost...

Sid

Mike is probably your best guy to answer, i certainly wouldnt replate  Von Hoffe but I've a whole slew of Senators, Squidders, Jiggys, and various International parts that I need to replate. I consider a plinth a rod with line through the guides

[sdlehr]

Mike is probably your best guy to answer, i certainly wouldnt replate  Von Hoffe but I've a whole slew of Senators, Squidders, Jiggys, and various International parts that I need to replate. I consider a plinth a rod with line through the guides

Yeah, I'm actually waiting for Mike, or John in Hawaii to answer this. Or Ron. Or anyone who knows the answer....

Sid

[Tightlines667]

Is it the cost of plating that keeps folks from replating the worn chrome? Is there another reason a replated reel should not be in a collection, or is it all personal preference and OK for collection value as long as you don't lie about it? In other words, would using replated parts diminish the value of a collectible reel? I asked this question in another thread but it got lost...

Sid

My knee-jerk reaction would be that re-plating an older collectable reel will definitely detract from its intrinsic value as a collectable.  Usually, leaving the reel in as origional condition as possible is preferred.  I think part of the concern is that the reel would be modified to a condition that would differ from how it was produced in the factory.  Examples might be polishing a tumbled chrome to a non era/model correct polished look.  I also suspect that factory and era (maybe even model) specific plating techniques varied, and might be difficult to replicate.  Having said that, there may be instances where replacing a valuable collectable is actually a good idea.  I think it's best to proceed with caution in these matters. 

I am sure there are many modern reels that would certainly benefit from replating.  This topic might be considered in a similar manner to rebuking firearms.  Generally speaking it is ok to rescue modern firearms, but should not be done as a normal part of antique restoration.

John

[sdlehr]

That's all pretty understandable, John. Nonetheless, I want to figure this out, so I've continued to climb the learning curve.... (I actually did this before I saw your comment).

Before and after

[foakes]

As long as the motive is to improve the appearance, and not to mislead a buyer that it is original -- there is no issue.

Few collectible reels today, have chrome anyway.

While true that there are some collectible Penns, OC, etc., nearly any collector worth his salt can recognize a replate from original -- there are many tells -- so no worries.  Few of our reels fall into this category.

Just as the plug collectors use experience, knowledge, black lights, etc., to examine potential rare purchases -- the reel guys are experts also.

And if one has a rare Vom Hofe, Pflueger, Winchester, or Redifor -- they do not have chrome anyway.  German Silver, Nickel, brass, etc. -- so not an issue.

For me, I try not to collect reels -- the reels I have are for repairing other reels, using, and getting into the right hands -- out on the water.  That doesn't mean I do not have reels that I like to display -- because I do.

So I applaud Sid for working on this chroming technique -- we may all learn something -- if nothing more than a few really hard parts may be restored to better than before.

If I needed a set of posts for a reel -- this may work.

And also I may find that a set of aftermarket posts in SS may be a better answer.

A place for everything.

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

[David Hall]

Very nice, and while maybe detracting from collectable value it certainly works for the rest of us that just like our reels to look their best!

[Dominick]

Sid I wonder if tumbling the parts which is done to polish brass bullet casings might take care of removing the old chrome.  Alan may weigh in on this as he uses a tumbler with nut shells (?) and polish.  I don't know what I am talking about.  Dominick

[sdlehr]

If I needed a set of posts for a reel -- this may work.

And also I may find that a set of aftermarket posts in SS may be a better answer.

There are a few chromed reel parts that make me scratch my head.... Posts, bridge screws, post screws, the crank nut locking screw - does anyone care if these things are not original? Suppose I took my nonnumbered 60 and put posts on from a numbered 60 - would anyone care? Could anyone detect that? Same with all the screws I mentioned. Maybe guys like Mike and Brian Purrone (I can see I'm going to have to ask someone in ORCA this question) can tell the difference or want to know that the posts on this unnumbered 60 didn't come from a numbered reel... but who can know for sure? Suppose half of Mike's reels have bridge screws that came from numbered reels.... does that make his collection less valuable? Just some musings that were going through my head this afternoon... I'm new to collecting if you couldn't tell....

Sid I wonder if tumbling the parts which is done to polish brass bullet casings might take care of removing the old chrome.  Alan may weigh in on this as he uses a tumbler with nut shells (?) and polish.  I don't know what I am talking about.  Dominick

I think a tumbler with walnut shells or something similar might work for this. Hopefully Alan will weigh in. That's a really good idea, Dominick. But the chemists have a way to reverse-plate the old chrome off, but then the piece would have to be made mirror-smooth prior to plating.... so the tumbler might be better/less labor intensive. I can already see that unless I save up parts and do a batch plating it is going to be prohibitively expensive because of the time factor. On the ring above I took steel wool to remove the loose chrome already present, then soaked in muriatic acid to remove organic impurities from the surface, then brush-plated chrome on top of the brass - and the chrome already present that wasn't removed by the steel wool. The surface to be plated has to be pristine and free of all impurities to take plating well. The commercial process that Penn used for these parts may also have involved an intermediate nickel plated on brass, then chrome on the nickel.... I think that is how to get the best, glossiest surface. And the addition of an intermediate step increases the cost factor to the point that it is prohibitive.  I have a friend in the door business that sometimes takes stuff to someone to get gold plated. I may have to find this someone and pay him a visit, buy him lunch and pick his brain, and maybe spend a few hours watching him work. Assuming he wants to share his secrets. It's becoming clear I'm not going into the plating business.

Sid

[Tightlines667]

If I needed a set of posts for a reel -- this may work.

And also I may find that a set of aftermarket posts in SS may be a better answer.

There are a few chromed reel parts that make me scratch my head.... Posts, bridge screws, post screws, the crank nut locking screw - does anyone care if these things are not original? Suppose I took my nonnumbered 60 and put posts on from a numbered 60 - would anyone care? Could anyone detect that? Same with all the screws I mentioned. Maybe guys like Mike and Brian Purrone (I can see I'm going to have to ask someone in ORCA this question) can tell the difference or want to know that the posts on this unnumbered 60 didn't come from a numbered reel... but who can know for sure? Suppose half of Mike's reels have bridge screws that came from numbered reels.... does that make his collection less valuable? Just some musings that were going through my head this afternoon... I'm new to collecting if you couldn't tell....

Sid I wonder if tumbling the parts which is done to polish brass bullet casings might take care of removing the old chrome.  Alan may weigh in on this as he uses a tumbler with nut shells (?) and polish.  I don't know what I am talking about.  Dominick

I think a tumbler with walnut shells or something similar might work for this. Hopefully Alan will weigh in. That's a really good idea, Dominick. But the chemists have a way to reverse-plate the old chrome off, but then the piece would have to be made mirror-smooth prior to plating.... so the tumbler might be better/less labor intensive. I can already see that unless I save up parts and do a batch plating it is going to be prohibitively expensive because of the time factor. On the ring above I took steel wool to remove the loose chrome already present, then soaked in muriatic acid to remove organic impurities from the surface, then brush-plated chrome on top of the brass - and the chrome already present that wasn't removed by the steel wool. The surface to be plated has to be pristine and free of all impurities to take plating well. The commercial process that Penn used for these parts may also have involved an intermediate nickel plated on brass, then chrome on the nickel.... I think that is how to get the best, glossiest surface. And the addition of an intermediate step increases the cost factor to the point that it is prohibitive.  I have a friend in the door business that sometimes takes stuff to someone to get gold plated. I may have to find this someone and pay him a visit, buy him lunch and pick his brain, and maybe spend a few hours watching him work. Assuming he wants to share his secrets. It's becoming clear I'm not going into the plating business.

Sid

Sid,

It depends on the reel models and era or years of production with regards to period correct part interchangeability affecting the reels value as a collectable.  Most collectors would instruct people to leave the reel with all origional parts.  However, provided parts changed out are period correct, the value can be increased.  For instance prewar senators have different handle retaining nuts, posts, rings, bushings, and other parts then their post war breathern.. despite all parts being interchangeable and nonnumbered.  There is no one easy answer.. it depends on the part, and the specific reel.  If that special part did not change through a given period, and across a given set of models, swapping it out for a nicer lookimg or less worn one is not an isdue.  The problem lies in recognizing which parts are truly interchangeable from a collecting standpoint.  Replacing heavier posts with the lighter chrome plated ones for instance would not be a period correct restoration and would be frowned upon (and detract from the value) by collectors.

[alantani]

for pistol brass, i was using walnut shells but gave up on it because of the mess and because of my allergies.  now i'm using stainless steel pins with hand dishwashing detergent, water and citric acid (lemishine).   been thinking of tumbling some old beat up parts just to see how they come out.  as far as chroming them, i would be curious to see the results of chroming a 5 gallon bucket of old parts.  i would guess that they would have to be polished to get the best appearance.  i had looked into a couple of years ago and got no where.  the chroming industry is dying out because of all the restrictions on the chemicals.