Drag help for DUEL 80 LIGHT circa 1997

[Robert Janssen]

Idunno. Jack E told me once long ago that they used to have problems with the tabs on the metal washers nibbling away at the edges of the aluminum spool and forming ruts there. Maybe the drive hex too.
Worth a look i guess.

[Tightlines667]

Idunno. Jack E told me once long ago that they used to have problems with the tabs on the metal washers nibbling away at the edges of the aluminum spool and forming ruts there. Maybe the drive hex too.
Worth a look i guess.

Funny you should mention that.  I was just thinking another possibility would be that the drag washers are getting hung up, on the spool, nut, or shaft.  The tabs catching at the spool is probably most likely.  Testing te function while the headplate is off, and a closer inspection of te spool may help to diagnose the issue (s).  You may be able to improve function by debuting with a small file, or very carefully with a Dremel. 

John

[Mark Gunning]

Idunno. Jack E told me once long ago that they used to have problems with the tabs on the metal washers nibbling away at the edges of the aluminum spool and forming ruts there. Maybe the drive hex too.
Worth a look i guess.

The ss spring plate is the only metal plate with tabs. no ruts in the spool from it.
the two SS drag plates are round (without tabs) and lock onto the main shaft via a hex section pinned into the shaft.
Its the CF washers that have the tabs which lock into the spool. JE must have been referring to the SS spring plate.

[Robert Janssen]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

.

[Tightlines667]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

.

Interesting thought, and a distinct possibility here.  A warped/bent/marred spool.shaft is also a possibility.

[Mark Gunning]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

Err, am I reading you right, I think opposite of what you say.
the shaft does rotate when cranking.
The shaft is stationary when huge Blue marlin is taking line. that when the bearing does nothing.

Just checked the left side shaft bearing, it feels fine, not perfect but more than good enough I think.
with spool removed, there is some side play in the main shaft from the right side main bearing but it too feels very smooth and surely the left main bearing controls the movement when all assembled.

I did look into changing the right side bearing but for life of me cant work out how to remove the hex drive section off the main shaft. its pinned to the shaft one side only so cant drive pin out from other side. pin hole does not go all the way through.. Maybe I get the bearing off the shaft by removing drive gear of other end? hard to say, I didn't actually split the gearbox section, didn't want to go there just yet. ive read its a wet box, filled with oil.
Any way I don't think the bearing is effecting the drag, they all seem very smooth despite the side play... could be wrong though.

[Tightlines667]

If the plates are flat and true, then I would consider disassembly of the headplate so that you can remove the spool shaft.  Ensure the right side spool is clean, and free of any burrs, and do the same for the shaft.  Sometimes when the reel is underload, the spool shaft will hang up on the spool bearings, or the drag discs will hang up on the spool, or shaft.  Did you already replace the spool bearings?  The right spool bearing looks to have some corrosion present.  I always replace the bearings if there is any felt roughness, sincetc this typically worsens when under load, and they can lead to failure later. 

If you get the spool shaft free, you can test the spool/drag subassembly and try to determine what is happening here.

You might be able to figure it out w/of removing it as well.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mark Gunning]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

.

Interesting thought, and a distinct possibility here.  A warped/bent/marred spool.shaft is also a possibility.

just checked the shaft, not bent.
I put the left side plate back on without the spool, gave it a few cranks, spinning nice and true.

[Mark Gunning]

If the plates are flat and true, then I would consider disassembly of the headplate so that you can remove the spool shaft.  Ensure the right side spool is clean, and free of any burrs, and do the same for the shaft.  Sometimes when the reel is underload, the spool shaft will hang up on the spool bearings, or the drag discs will hang up on the spool, or shaft.  Did you already replace the spool bearings?  The right spool bearing looks to have some corrosion present.  I always replace the bearings if there is any felt roughness, sincetc this typically worsens when under load, and they can lead to failure later. 

If you get the spool shaft free, you can test the spool/drag subassembly and try to determine what is happening here.

You might be able to figure it out w/of removing it as well.

Just my 2 cents.

have not yet confirmed plates flat true. hard to check them as they are cupped (centre hex section offset from drag surface area)
havnt yet replaced bearings. if they have to come from Italy that's going to be a problem, not easy to deal with.

No corrosion on the bearing you mentioned, right side bearing not in any photos I posted or I've got my L/R mixed up. right to me is the crank side when the reel sits overhead on the rod. left side bearing in side plate all good as well, its full SS.

just disassembled the drag lever section again, there's only one way it can go back together whilst maintaining full lever arc. I'm sure its correct. It works by use of a coarse male/fem thread. the female part can be put in 3 different positions in the right side plate, but only one of them allows full lever movement. just spent the last hour trying all positions, back to where I had it. could always pull apart another reel to check but that's somewhere I don't want to go at this stage.

Question; If I had warped SS drag plates would I see the spool move left/right as I peeled off line?

[Tightlines667]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

.

Interesting thought, and a distinct possibility here.  A warped/bent/marred spool.shaft is also a possibility.

just checked the shaft, not bent.

Doesn't it slide freely through the spool bearings (even when a load is applied)?

[Mark Gunning]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

Interesting thought, and a distinct possibility here.  A warped/bent/marred spool.shaft is also a possibility.

just checked the shaft, not bent.

Doesn't it slide freely through the spool bearings (even when a load is applied)?

you've kinda lost me here, do mean when im sliding the spool onto the shaft?

[Tightlines667]

Yes.  The spool moves in relation to the shaft and drag components as the drag is increased/applied.  Sometimes it will get hung up on the spool shaft bearings or the drag components will stick on it.  Basically you just want to check to make sure none of the parts have any burrs where they may hang up on, or not move smoothly.

Hope this makes sense?

John

[Mark Gunning]

Yes, i presume he meant washers, plural, as in several reels, alternatively the hex drive portion being gouged be the round stainless washers.

.Edit, in afterthought: any chance this could be caused by a faulty left spool bearing? The thinking being that since this is a live axle design, the spool bearing needn't rotate upon the shaft when retrieving. You wouldn't notice if it was frozen. Only on the outgoing direction does this bearing actually need to move, and that is when the problem shows itself.

Err, am I reading you right, I think opposite of what you say.
the shaft does rotate when cranking.
The shaft is stationary when huge Blue marlin is taking line. that when the bearing does nothing.
Just checked the left side shaft bearing, it feels fine, not perfect but more than good enough I think.
with spool removed, there is some side play in the main shaft from the right side main bearing but it too feels very smooth and surely the left main bearing controls the movement when all assembled.

I did look into changing the right side bearing but for life of me cant work out how to remove the hex drive section off the main shaft. its pinned to the shaft one side only so cant drive pin out from other side. pin hole does not go all the way through.. Maybe I get the bearing off the shaft by removing drive gear of other end? hard to say, I didn't actually split the gearbox section, didn't want to go there just yet. ive read its a wet box, filled with oil.
Any way I don't think the bearing is effecting the drag, they all seem very smooth despite the side play... could be wrong though.

Im a goose, just realised what your saying here. I was thinking about left & right side plate bearings not spool bearings.
both left & right spool bearings feel free & smooth.

[Mark Gunning]

Yes.  The spool moves in relation to the shaft and drag components as the drag is increased/applied.  Sometimes it will get hung up on the spool shaft bearings or the drag components will stick on it.  Basically you just want to check to make sure none of the parts have any burrs where they may hang up on, or not move smoothly.

Hope this makes sense?

John

seems smooth to slide onto shaft, cant find any burrs except sharp edges where the hex was stamped into the SS washers. just smoothing them out now.

[Mark Gunning]

now smooth.

well on closer inspection I should say smoother..