Penn 112H Senator (1975 vintage ?) repair questions

[tpf903]

Penn 112H Senator (1975 vintage) repair questions

1)Reels have original fiber drag washers. Should these be upgraded? If so, to what? I assume the height of the stack has to be maintained.

2) There are two tension washers on the drag stack. I've seen these in many different positions, i.e. 1) both below the star wheel; 2) one on either side of the star wheel; 3) Both ont top of the star wheel (immediately below the handle), etc. What is the correct positions of these?

3)What is a good and safe degreaser. I see the parts are made of many different materials and don't want to ruin any part. I've been using WD40.

4) Lube - I've been using Super Lube and Penn Lube, depending what O have available. Is one better than the other?

[broadway]

As with most senators, especially vintage ones, the tolerances are a little on the loose side compared to today's standards.  In that case, the tension washers and other washers are specific to each reel individually... this is done during assembly to make them perform at their best in the field.  If the reel is working as you believe it should pay attention to the configuration that exists.  If not pay attention anyway so you can switch things around to make it operate at the top of it's potential.  Sometimes you just gotta move things around, add, or subtract something.  Go with smooth drag carbontex drags for sure!  Is it a 3+1 or 5+1 stack? Anyway you want the 5+1.  If you have a hard time fitting it (don't think you will) get the ground flat smooth drag washers... it will help.  Degreaser I use 409 for anything not solid metal.  On the metal I use 90% alcohol or white vinegar. Lube- Cal's grease on the drags.  The guys+ Alan use Yamaha Blue grease.  I use Cal's all around.  Yamaha Blue on the bushings works well, though.  Good luck and have at it.  Check mysticparts.com for parts if need be cause there are some awesome upgrades out there for this beauty!  Good Luck
Dom


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Norcal Pescador]

To tag on to Dom's right-on comments, if you choose Yamaha grease, make sure it's the Yamaha Marine Grease in the 14 ounce tube. It's the only Yamaha lube with salt water corrosion inhibitors. Also there are light oils that work well for ball bearings (if the reel will be used for casting) bushings, and the gear sleeve: tsi 301, tsi 321, CorrosionX, and ReelX, to name a few. Like Dom said, you can't go wrong with Cal's as your only grease, pack the ball bearings completely with grease to keep water out if the reel will be used for trolling. You can put on a stainless steel gear sleeve that will stand up better to hard cranking, and a bigger grip/handle that makes the reel feel so much better. The 1+5 drag stack is a must-have! The weakest link will then be the gears but as far as overall strength, it will still be a 112H. Dom is the man when it comes to Senators.
Rob

[alantani]

it's basically a jigmaster drag stack.  a carbontex drag under the main gear is a must.  a stainless steel gear sleeve is really helpful because the brass ones are always getting rounded off.  i add a jigmaster power handle or a bolt on kolekar grip.  figure straight 30# mono and 6-8 pounds of drag to keep this reel happy.  tension washers don't matter.  add them in where ever they fit.  i'd rather see you using corrosion x than wd-40.  penn grease is good stuff.  stick with it. 

[broadway]

You got solid advice from these boys... keep us posted on your project... best of luck!
Dom

[akfish]

Only a couple more comments: I don't think you can convert a 112H Senator to a 5 stack drag; it takes 3 Jigmaster drag washers (006 309) and squeezing in more would require pretty serious work on the side plate. And the new Penn grease -- the blue stuff called X-1R -- is great; the old amber stuff is no good at all.

[Alto Mare]

I just don't see why you would  want to add two more washers on a reel that will only get you 8 pounds of drag at its best. My opinion is to change the washers to carbontex with the same layout configuration , add the stainless steel sleeve, carbon washer under the main gear and you got yourself a nice little reel. If you're looking for more punch, try the Senator 113H , you could add 1+5 or even 1+7 and should be able to get around 25 pound of drag . Akfish is wright about the new Penn grease, I use it on all of my reels, the old amber grease would turn brown after a while and get hard. Penn came a long way,  I still use Cal's greasefor the drags though, as Alan recommends.

[tpf903]

Thanks for the advice. 

Such a true statement about the old Penn lube turning brown.  I'm rebuilding 5 reels purchased online at different times.  The lube in the reels that were never service was like varnish.

On the topic of lube...no one has commented on the use of Super Lube.  That's what my local repair shop recommended. 

I haven't used it yet, but I was planning on using it when I run out of the Penn lube.

[broadway]

I put a 5+1 carbontex stack, ground flat washers (smooth drag), stainless gear sleeve, stainless yoke, tighter tolerance spacer (less handle play), newell 5 to 1 gearing/pinion, tiburon frame, 4/0 Pete Kolekar, and upgraded drag star, and I pulled 14 lbs on the scale without the upgraded yoke and upgraded drag star.  I believe I could max it out at 17 or so... just didn't wanna push it. 
That little ole' reel can do a lot more with these upgrades.  Try it out... you'll be shocked!
Kevin at Pro Reel uses super lube... he put it on my spinners when he serviced them, but they haven't seen action since the overhaul.  I'll let ya know when I test 'em out.
Dom

[Alto Mare]

Looks like you only kept the plates from the original reel Dom. Was it worth it for the money?

[broadway]

I couldn't find a smaller wireline reel anywhere that would last a life time so I hooked up my 112h's with chromed over spools.  I'm yet to use them, but once my foot heals I'll give ya a full report.  I understand that with some types of fishing there are hundreds of reel choices, but wire lining there is one that reigns supreme... the 113HSP.  There are a couple more up for the task, one being the Daiwa 450H-Great reel also, but parts aren't easy to get.  I wanted a smaller reel for when I bring out the ladies or younger kids, or during the early spring when the rat stripers are hitting umbrellas 5 at one time (all small fish 16-24").  I put the 112h's on daiwa ste72c rods.  They seem a little stiff, but they are light as can be for a wire rod and have a slow/moderate bend.  Doubt it'll pull a bunker spoon, but should work for my newly developed umbrella rigs that I made over the winter.  
Hey Sal, where do ya boat out of?  Whenif we can get together during the season I'll let ya try out the 112's. I don't do this hobby to save money... if I did I would find a cheaper hobby
Dom

[Alto Mare]

I know what you mean Dom, I have a few reels that I customized for myself with similar parts to yours, a couple of Accurate Jigmasters, some 4/0's and 6/0's, most are  Accurate. I know what I spent on mine, that is why I asked you that question. Looks like we're on the same page, it's not always about the money. Dom, my boat was in Somers Point NJ, about a mile from Ocean City, but like I mentioned earlier it is now in MD on the Chesapeak. I'm at the NE side of the Chesapeak, it is only temporary, I will go back next year to Jersey, I miss saltwater. Fishing is not that great there, I moved for other reasons. The only good thing about it is that it takes me less then an hour to get there from my house, I'm about 10 minutes outside Philly . I did catch about 15 dozens of blue crabs, I couldn't beleive how big they were 7 to 8 inches (not like the babies in NJ). A friend showed me how to freeze them, so I froze about 10 dozens and took them up to the Poconos to surprize my deer hunting buddies this winter. Steamed crabs and beer in the snow, can't beat that! I also made a few dozen with garlic white wine and fresh tomatoes for the gravy over linguine with lots of hot pepper, don't forget I'm full blooded Italiano. Take care Dom and keep that leg up, don't be a hero, let it take its course and you'll be on the water in no time. Sal

[Dominick]

Steamed crabs and beer in the snow, can't beat that! I also made a few dozen with garlic white wine and fresh tomatoes for the gravy over linguine with lots of hot pepper, don't forget I'm full blooded Italiano. Take care Dom and keep that leg up, don't be a hero, let it take its course and you'll be on the water in no time. Sal

Sal:  You're killing me.  You just gave me a rush.  I miss my deer hunting days in upstate NY.  I remember plenty of days of linguine with clams and beer kept in the snow to keep them from freezing.  Never had steamed crabs back then but we did have memorable meals.  Dominick

[akfish]

Intriguing. How did you get a 5 drag stack into a 112H? Did you have to dremel the sideplate? The stainless gear sleeve is a good, albeit expensive, upgrade. And a larger handle is nice. But I don't see how to put 5 carbon drag washers in a 112H.

[Norcal Pescador]

Intriguing. How did you get a 5 drag stack into a 112H? Did you have to dremel the sideplate? The stainless gear sleeve is a good, albeit expensive, upgrade. And a larger handle is nice. But I don't see how to put 5 carbon drag washers in a 112H.

That's a project (theory) that Bryan and I are working on with thinner than normal metal washers and 0.5mm Carbontex washers. It's a prototype in the works.   I jumped the gun on the 1+5 stack, I was able to do it in my 111 without dremeling and was thinking 113. Oops!
Rob