Help With Old Penn Ball Bearing

[nathanbrand]

I'm in the process of stripping down and cleaning an old Penn 650SS. This is the first time I've disassembled the reel to this extent. Attached are photos of the main bearing (Penn part #20-704). I was able to take it apart, clean it, and pack it with grease, but I can't seem to get it to go back together again. Is there a way to do this, or should I never have taken it apart to begin with? This is the original bearing, and is over 20 years old. I'm new to dealing with bearings, and I haven't seen one like this on any of the online tutorials I've been able to find.

Thanks

[nathanbrand]

Hmmm..... I'm having trouble getting photos to post: "Uploader is full" error.
I'll try to get them up there ASAP.

[Alto Mare]

How much did you take apart? did the bearings come out?

[Bryan Young]

You will need to use a photo host, like photobucket to post photos.

The bearing do slide off and should slide back on.  They are a little more difficult because the tolerances are tighter on the spinners for some reason.  You need to make sure that the bearings are square with the shaft that it's sliding on.

Try and get the pics and let's see if we can help further.

[alantani]

the seals or shields come off, but nothing more.  did you get further than that?

[nathanbrand]

Okay, here are the photos posted on Photobucket:




I think I may have ruined this bearing. I assumed the white plastic washer piece was the shield, so I removed it. As you can see in the photos, the bearing is now in three pieces.

[nathanbrand]

While I'm at it. I posted some photos of the side bearings (Penn Part #20-6500).


I couldn't open these, so I left them alone. I was trying to use the "fishhook" method to
remove the retaining coil, but couldn't find the thread of the coil. I figured these must be the shielded variety, and I wasn't prepared (with equipment or know-how) to try and puncture the shields to remove
them. If anyone can tell me exactly what type those are from the photos, or if they have an old
Penn 650SS, I'd appreciate it.

[Alto Mare]

Nathanbrand what did you do? . You removed the wrong side but I think that I'll be able to help you, get yourself a white towel or rag and place it on the table or wathever you work on, good idea to grab a toothpick also. The bearings, as you have them now will never go back, so you will need to remove the 7 ball bearings from the plastic washer, be careful that you don't loose them, now hold the outer ring of the bearing up straight and place the 7 ballbearings in it touching eachother, now get the inner ring and set it in place, don't try to center it, you just want to set it in, with a little patience you will be able to do it, now while holding it in place pack some grease in it( don't worry the bearing will not come apart at this point) now grab the toothpick and space the 7 ball bearings as shown on the plastic washer,( you don't have to be precise but try to get close), now carefully grab the plastic washer and place it over the bearings  trying not to move them out of place, gently press on the washer and it should snap it in place. Let me know how you make out. Sal

[Dominick]

Sal: How do you know this stuff?  Dominick

[Alto Mare]

Dominick, I service all my 650SS/6500SS and 750SS/7500SS that way. I think that I made the same mistake the first time, but I liked it becouse I was able to really clean everything nicely and put them back the same way I explained it. I just hope that Nathanbrand understands, I'm not that good at explaining things

[nathanbrand]

Hey Sal,

Your the man! You explained it perfectly and the white washer/clip snapped back in exactly
as you described following your instructions. Thanks for bailing me out of that one.

I was being as careful as possible, but do you think I did any damage in any way? The bearing looks fine to me.

Also, how do you deal with the two side bearings (Penn Part #20-6500)? Are all these bearings in the older Penn 650SS the metal-shielded type? I read Alan's tutorial, http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13.0, but I'm not really comfortable with trying to puncture the shield and pull it off. I feel like I'll probably break something....

[Alto Mare]

Nathanbrand, I'm glad it worked out for you. I do not beleive that you made any domage to the bearing, the plastic shield looked pretty good from your pix. about your other question, I have a couple of dozens of these reels (can you tell that I really like them?) and some  of the bearings are similar to the one that you just worked on, some have the metal shield on both sides. If you feel aroun the edge of the bearing with a small hook,( I use a snelled hook  so I can wrap the line around my hand for more controll) you should be able to feel the reteining wire that holds the shield , all you have to do is to apply a little pressure at the tip and it should come out for you, if you don't feel anything , you have the pre-set shields, that leaves you with two choises (1) you could puncture one of the shield and pull it out,(the shield becomes trash, but the bearing is still good, I just use oil not grease at that point) , by the way, check under tools and look at my post... working on bearings, I just found those tools and they work great for me.(2) You could get yourself one of those great bearing packers from Alan and there will be no need to remove the shields to pack them with grease, I did not get one yet but will do soon. Hope that helps you , take care , Sal

[nathanbrand]

Sal,

I read your post under Tools. I think I'm going to pick one of those up at Harbor Freight Tools.
Do you know what you call that thing?

Also, when you pry the shields off with that tool, are the shields then no longer usable? If you have to discard the shields, do you need to replace them on the ball bearing before you put it back into service? Is it possible to use these bearings in the Penn 650SS without a shield? Or will salt get into them and make a mess of things?

One last thing, for this bearing that I "removed the wrong side."  Whoops! Am I supposed to remove the shield on the other side of the bearing to clean it? I sort of popped the white washer/cap piece off. Exactly how to you go about dismantling that type?

Thanks for all your help.

- NB

[Alto Mare]

NB, Harbor Fraight has them next to the dental picks, I got rid of the package and don't remember what they call them.There is always someone there asking if you need help, you won't have any problems finding them. About the shield, when you pry it off, it is no longer usable, but the bearing still is. You do not need to replace the shield, even if you had one, you still wouldn't be able to put it back, they are pre-set at the shop. On a pre-set bearings, I only like to remove one shield from one side, I would then clean the bearing and lube, I prefer using lube on open bearings instead of grease,yes you can re-use them, I like to place mine by the spool shaft, with the open end facing up, just my preference, you could use them anywere and no there is no need to worry about salt, you shoul be OK with regular maintenance. I previusly explaind how to remove the retaining wire on the shield with a hook(these are Alan's  ideas, not mine and they work great). If for any add reasons the bearing that you removed the wrong side does not have the retaining wire, than just repeat what you just did and you should be fine. It gets easies the second time around. If you're still not comfortable doing so, I would then recommend the bearing packer. Here is the link in case you're interested,   http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=870.0   

[Alto Mare]

I'm working on a 650SS and the bearings are similar to the ones that Nathanbrand is showing on his pics. These bearings do not have the retaining wire on the shield , the  way to get to the ball bearings (so that you could clean all of that dried up grease) is to remove the plastic washer...unless you want to poke the metal shield and get rid of it. I found that using those heavy duty picks that I posted under tools "working on bearings" makes the job much easier (I'm not affiliated with Harbor Freight Tools) ,I just like to help make things easier when possible. The only thing I want to point out is that when removing the plastic washer  press on the outer edge of  it between the plastic and metal with the pick, or anything else that you feel it might work, when you get a little bite, tilt the pick outward to lift the plastic washer and work your way  around. When removing the plastic washer be careful that you don't lose the bearings(you should have 7). To remove the inner ring, place the ball bearings close to eachother and pull the inner ring out , after you clean everything , repeat what you did by placing the 7 bearings in the ring touching eachother, place the inner ring back, space the ball bearings as explained earlier and snap the plastic washer back in. I found that this is the only way the bearings will go back in place, you won't be able to put the plastic washer back in with the ball bearings already on the washer. I know that I already explained this earlier, I just wanted to make sure that you did not domage the plastic washer... Later, Sal