Penn senator 113h with new drags but still 13# drag max

[steelfish]

well, this isnt my 1st 113h I service or change drags, but I still havent figured out why I still only getting 12-13# drag as max with new HT-100 kit installed.

too much Cals grease on the drag washers?
Im pretty sure all the metal washers and HT-100 washers were installed on the main gear
Do I need to change the presure washer too or add another metal washer?
the reel is still using the stock "hard fiber" under main gear washer, should I change it for a carbontex one?


I try to lock the drag with my hands and still I think 14# was the max drag I could get

there are no much internal parts to check so, Im kind of lost.

[MarkT]

Line slipping on the spool?

[Shark Hunter]

Start with the simple things first Alex.
You say you think all the washers are in there.
Double check the stack to be 100% sure and then go from there.
If the star is bottoming out, you need more washers.
The hard fiber under the gear shouldn't have anything to do with it.

[Bryan Young]

well, this isnt my 1st 113h I service or change drags, but I still havent figured out why I still only getting 12-13# drag as max with new HT-100 kit installed.

too much Cals grease on the drag washers?
Im pretty sure all the metal washers and HT-100 washers were installed on the main gear
Do I need to change the presure washer too or add another metal washer?
the reel is still using the stock "hard fiber" under main gear washer, should I change it for a carbontex one?


I try to lock the drag with my hands and still I think 14# was the max drag I could get

there are no much internal parts to check so, Im kind of lost.

Did you change out a stock 3-stack or 5-stack for the new HT-100 drag kit?  The reason I ask is that sometimes the slots on the main gear from a 3-stack is not machined that deep and therefore you end up with no or partial contact with the first 2 HT-100 drag washers.

Second thing I would check is the gear sleeve.  Is the metal drag washer getting hung up on the gear sleeve?  I've seen a few of those as well.

Lastly is the last eared washer...is it getting hung up on the top of the main gear (often slips when installing).

[steelfish]

Line slipping on the spool?

the reel has 50#  mono line from many previous trips, so its pretty tight on the spool


@ Daron, I will check the reel again tonight and align everything again.

I forgot to tell that the reel was using the very old drag stack (3 thick hard plastic washers) and had a really sticky drag, so I recommended the owner to change it to a stock HT100 kit, seems like the old drag stack package was thicker than the new drag stack, I never meassured both to check that out but I will do it to check If I need to add an additional washer

[steelfish]

Did you change out a stock 3-stack or 5-stack for the new HT-100 drag kit?  The reason I ask is that sometimes the slots on the main gear from a 3-stack is not machined that deep and therefore you end up with no or partial contact with the first 2 HT-100 drag washers.

this is the 1st thing I will check, normally I check that out on every reel but I could have missed this on the reel.

[mo65]

I forgot to tell that the reel was using the very old drag stack (3 thick hard plastic washers) and had a really sticky drag, so I recommended the owner to change it to a stock HT100 kit, seems like the old drag stack package was thicker than the new drag stack.

   I'd say herein lies the problem...bet that star is bottoming out. Also like Bryan said...those ear cutouts need to be deep enough for a 5-stack. As a last resort...those stock Penn metals that come with the drag kit can be so rounded from the stamping process they can rob you of power. Filing them flat does wonders, I had the same problem with a jigmaster that you're experiencing now.

[steelfish]

...those stock Penn metals that come with the drag kit can be so rounded from the stamping process they can rob you of power. Filing them flat does wonders, I had the same problem with a jigmaster that you're experiencing now. [/color]

so, Mo, if Im understanding you well, what you are saying that the metal washers that come in the kit are too polished or smooth and dont offer any surface to bite from the carbon washers?
I have some fine small files that I can use to made the surface of the metal washers a bit rough

PS: this sounds like a fair tip, those metal washers when new are too shiny like a mirror

[RowdyW]

NO Alex, the washers should be flat and smooth. You can hone them on a nice flat stone but that only gains a pound or two. Your problem is elsewhere. Start with what Daron said first.                   Rudy

[steelfish]

thanks Rudy

[mo65]

   Like I quoted Daron...start with checking stack height. As far as the washer deal...it's the opposite Alex...the smoother they are the better they bite. Think of it like clutch plates in a car...same principle. I was referring to the "rounded" shape of them. File just a bit on one, you'll see what I mean, there will be an area unaffected until you shave a little more off. Then lap them smooth. The carbontex washers contact more surface when the metal washers are perfectly flat. Making those metals smooth and flat will definitely gain a few pounds.

[sdlehr]

  As far as the washer deal...it's the opposite Alex...the smoother they are the better they bite.

Alex, to understand this I had to think on the microscopic level. The difference between a mirror surface and a rough surface on a metal drag washer is scratches. The high points on the metals are what contact the carbon fiber drag discs. The smoother the metal, the fewer the high points, and the more surface in touch with the carbon fiber, therefore more drag. But, as Rudy said, that's not your problem, I'm just offering an explanation that makes sense to me (I'm not sure it's the best explanation).

Sid

[mo65]

   Hey fellas...what is the stock 113H drag kit rated at? What's the expected max?

[steelfish]

Mo, Sid and Rudy, thanks guys just learned something new today about smooth surfaces for better drag

[handi2]

The stock drag with HT-100's should be 22lbs.

I get 30lbs with the under gear Delrin washer and Carbontex drag washers. If you grease them too much the drag drops quickly.

I wipe all the grease off on a towel before installing.