kayak reels: how much does sealing actually matter?

[Three se7ens]

Im looking for firsthand experience on how important sealing actually is on reels fished on a kayak.  Im sure there is a big difference in the requirements for an inshore reel that will not likely see more than spray, vs a reel enduring surf launches and a higher likelihood of getting dunked when fighting a fish.  Id like to hear personal experience on any aspect of this, just please describe you gear and use.  

[Swami805]

I fished the local kelp beds and coastline for many years in float tubes and kayaks, the go to reel was an abu 5500 or 6500 with 15-20 line switch te handles and HT100 drags. Artificals only usually swimbaits. Mostly fish to 15lbs sometimes bigger. The abu's don't cost much,are easy to clean and have enough line and drag for just about anything around here. A hard running fish will drag you around for a while so heavy gear isn't really needed. Also if your're fishing around structure hang-ups are common and good luck breaking heavy line from a rock, you just flip over.
Quite doing it due the increase in white sharks, bobbing around in the oceans with a bag of bleeding fish just got a little too scketchy.
Anyway my 2 cents, hope it helps

[foakes]

Im looking for firsthand experience on how important sealing actually is on reels fished on a kayak.  Im sure there is a big difference in the requirements for an inshore reel that will not likely see more than spray, vs a reel enduring surf launches and a higher likelihood of getting dunked when fighting a fish.  Id like to hear personal experience on any aspect of this, just please describe you gear and use.  

We have a large step up on others -- here on our Alan Tani Site.

Most folks would like a sealed reel -- because that is what they think they need -- since they do not have the minimal skills required to set it up, clean after each use, and use good salt resistant grease.

Since we, and particulary you, John -- know exactly how to break down a reel quickly, clean and service it properly, a suggestion might be to go with a reel that is simple to break down, service, operate, and add plenty of grease to intrusion points.

Regardless of how much you pay for a reel -- or the claims of the manufacturer -- no reel is absolutely water proof -- salt and water will get in.

Good reels are narrowed Squidders, Surfmasters, Jigmasters, etc...simple, easy to maintain -- and tough if set up right.

No need to break the bank.

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

[CapeFish]

Im looking for firsthand experience on how important sealing actually is on reels fished on a kayak.  Im sure there is a big difference in the requirements for an inshore reel that will not likely see more than spray, vs a reel enduring surf launches and a higher likelihood of getting dunked when fighting a fish.  Id like to hear personal experience on any aspect of this, just please describe you gear and use.  

We have a large step up on others -- here on our Alan Tani Site.

Most folks would like a sealed reel -- because that is what they think they need -- since they do not have the minimal skills required to set it up, clean after each use, and use good salt resistant grease.

Since we, and particulary you, John -- know exactly how to break down a reel quickly, clean and service it properly, a suggestion might be to go with a reel that is simple to break down, service, operate, and add plenty of grease to intrusion points.



Regardless of how much you pay for a reel -- or the claims of the manufacturer -- no reel is absolutely water proof -- salt and water will get in.

Good reels are narrowed Squidders, Surfmasters, Jigmasters, etc...simple, easy to maintain -- and tough if set up right.

No need to break the bank.

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

Totally agree, servicing and quality components are more important than sealing. I have mainly shore fished with multipliers doing a lot of wading but have now migrated across to kayaks and shore spinning with spinners. Using all the expert advise on this forum I have never had corrosion on any of my multipliers, not even a bearing rusting. I have given my spinners the same service, but I purchased a grease gun and bearing packer from Alan to take care of the myriad of sealed bearings in the spinners. So far so good, no corrosion and very little water actually gets in and my reels are not high end, Finnor, Quantum, mid range Shimano. I just wash them thoroughly in freshwater when I get back and open every now and again to see if everything is ok and get a drop or two of water out. Multipliers are even better because the water runs out so much easier and rinsing the salt out is also easier.

There are also more than enough reports on the net of supposed perfectly sealed spinners that end up rusting.

[Cor]

If you're sitting on the water in a Kayak your reel is going to get wet, probably very wet.   The only time my reels get water inside is when I'm on a boat #, in the rain or from rinsing in fresh water.    I don't think any reel that is currently on the market will remain water tight under Kayak fishing conditions, maybe with the exception on an inland lake with near zero waves.

Here where I stay many guys wade out to rock pinnacle at low tide and often walk/swim back in chest high water with waves and they simply except that the reel will get dunked.    All they do is rinse it in fresh water if they plan to go again within a day or so.    For the rest they undertake a complete service and clean very regularly.

Sand of course also gets in to it when in sandy surf conditions.

Not sure how often they replace or throw away the reels.

# Boat fishing here takes place on small fast outboard driven sportfishing  boats from about 15ft up and our swell is seldom less then 9 ft.   The one I go out on with a friend is 18ft with two 90hp motors.   Often spray goes right over the top.

[JRD]

Kayaking since 2008 and my go to reels were Calcutta 400 and 250.  Casting, level wind and easy to take apart.  A reel cover protected them from sand during surf launches and yard sale landings alike.  After fishing button the drags, rinse heavy then take apart  to drain and dry.  Yes they need frequent servicing but I never had a failure due to corrosion.  I would worry that a "sealed" reel is only going to keep the water that does get in trapped.  For bigger game like yellow and thrashers a trinidad 14 did the job.

[oc1]

Does sealing actually work?  I seldom use spinners and it certainly does not work on baitcasting reels.  Even if it is not dunked, water being flung off the spool will get behind the spool and then into the crank case. 

I have had pretty good luck with the old Calcutta 50 and 100.  For repetitive casting, full ceramic bearings run without oil require much less maintenance.  Quick take-apart is convenient, especially if it will let you lubricate the gears without further disassembly.

I am starting to think that the more open a reel is the less problem you will have.  It is easy to flush the salt out of a reel that is open.  Drainage holes to let the water run out are good.  Here is an extreme example.  It can be rinsed, dried and lubricated without opening.  If it ever starts to feel crunchy I just dunk it in the ocean and swish it around a bit.


-steve

[CapeFish]

Does sealing actually work?  I seldom use spinners and it certainly does not work on baitcasting reels.  Even if it is not dunked, water being flung off the spool will get behind the spool and then into the crank case. 

I have had pretty good luck with the old Calcutta 50 and 100.  For repetitive casting, full ceramic bearings run without oil require much less maintenance.  Quick take-apart is convenient, especially if it will let you lubricate the gears without further disassembly.

I am starting to think that the more open a reel is the less problem you will have.  It is easy to flush the salt out of a reel that is open.  Drainage holes to let the water run out are good.  Here is an extreme example.  It can be rinsed, dried and lubricated without opening.  If it ever starts to feel crunchy I just dunk it in the ocean and swish it around a bit.


-steve

My philosophy to, but it does help to have salt water resistant components to start off with. I have had some old Phleuger fly reels and Daiwa spinners that just could not handle the salt no matter what you do to them.

[oc1]

Yes, that's true for sure.  It is the old non-anodized aluminum spools that give me the most trouble.  Also new anodized aluminum spools if they get a nick in them.  The old german silver and brass is not too bad.  New graphite carbon fiber and hard plastic is great.  Stainless is hit or miss.
-steve

[Three se7ens]

Any ARB failures on non-sealed spinning reels?  Its pretty well shielded by bearings, so I think the risk would be minimal with regular service.  But a failure of the ARB will render a spinning reel nearly useless. 

[alantani]

a narrow jigmaster with a penn power handle and straight 30 pound mono makes a great kayak reel.  no bearings!

[FatTuna]

I have quite a few kayak guys that send me reels for repairs and service. Kayak guys are hands down the hardest on their gear. Even when fishing inshore, the reels are going to get wet. Paddling creates spray which hits the reels. If there is any wind or chop they get hit. The reels are sitting really close to the water line. It's not like you can put them up in the T top to keep them dry. 

I think the perfect kayak reel is something that is affordable, reliable, easy to fix, has parts available, and won't make you cry if it ends up overboard. The key to survival is servicing them constantly. 

Now with all that said, I think seals only mean something on the higher end reels. I have a lot of surf fishing guys that send me gear too. Some of the cheaper reels: Penn SSV, Saragosa, Van Staal VM, etc, they all take on water like a boat with a hole in it. I don't care what manufacturer try to claim. Cheap sealed reels are water resistant, not waterproof. It's like a "waterproof" phone, it will probably survive a random downpour but I wouldn't go swimming with it. The only reels that I've seen that are truly waterproof are the higher end Van Stalls. They will keep water out provided the seals are regularly changed out and tolerances are tight. Can't say I could recommend a reel like that for kayak fishing though. Too risky.

All the reels that I bring kayak fishing are rebuilds that I bought off of Ebay super cheap. Some are higher end models but have a ton of rash. The internals get swapped out but I don't have much money into them. I like TLDs, Penn slammer, Penn Conflicts, Toriums, Jigmaster, etc.

[FatTuna]

A a fellow kayak guy gave me this to work on

[Three se7ens]

Now thats impressive!

In your experience, how do the AR bearings hold up in the non-sealed reels?

[FatTuna]

With the exception of a Van Staal VSB, I think the seals only offer marginal protection against submersion. That's in respect to all components. The VSB is unique is that it has tight tolerances and the anti-reverse is housed in the sideplate. The sideplate is protected with two rubber seals. The clutch is really heavy duty and is pressed in which helps keep water out of the body. Under the rotor (flyer) there is a component called the sleeve guide. The sleeve guide is protected with a quad seal. These reels use a very viscous grease that is less likely to get displaced. Despite all of this, I've seen Van Staals leak. In my experience, they are the closest thing to a waterproof reel.

I've replaced a lot of clutches on SSVs. Most were bleeding rust and showed evidence of saltwater intrusioin. Haven't as many anti-reverse failures in Shimanos. I suppose I would rather have seals vs not having them but I don't put a lot of faith in them.