113h harder to turn handle after new drag install

13starsinax · May 26, 2011, 10:26:22 PM

hello there fellers,
i have trolled around here for a long time and decided to join up. you guys sure do seem sharp and very giving with your knowledge. and i saw one of alans threads to not be shy and post so here i am. i finally got up the guts to tackle a drag\greaser up event for my 113h narrow frame accurate\w spool..i talked to donna got my drags in today followed [yodas]
i mean alans tutorial which is awesome thanks to you sir for your time! got her all slippery in the right places put the drags in buttoned her up....now from that moment is where my question comes from...i have just read to many of your discussions and facts are starting to blurrrrrrr.., but is it supposed to be slightly harder to turn the handle after a drag rebuild? its not making any odd noises or something to lead me to belive something is not lined up right...its just not as smooth pre drag change..also this reel did not have the+1 drag installed on it when i took it apart so maybe thats all it is i wasnt used to having that other washer installed. whew that was a mouthfull of thinking right there. sorry to rant on my first post and all. R.W.Burns

franky · May 27, 2011, 12:21:02 AM

Quote from: 13starsinax on May 26, 2011, 10:26:22 PM

Is it supposed to be slightly harder to turn the handle after a drag rebuild? its not making any odd noises or something to lead me to belive something is not lined up right...its just not as smooth pre drag change.

Also this reel did not have the+1 drag installed on it when i took it apart so maybe thats all it is i wasnt used to having that other washer installed.
R.W.Burns

Hello R.W. Burns and welcome to the forum.

I worked on quite a few penns and newells. I am no way an expert, but heres my 2 cents....

Alot of times I find that when you compare a "pre-service" versus a "post-service" reel, sometimes the post-service reel may feel harder to crank because of the newly greased gears. I am not sure of what kind of grease you use on your pinion gear and the main gear. There are light oils and there are grease (thicker). Also, it depends on how much grease you are applying (just a little or a whole lot).

The main gear and the pinion gear may be "dry" pre-service; hence the ease of cranking. If and when you apply a thick grease (especially a whole lot of it) to these same gears, suddenly the cranking will appear to be mucked with grease; hence harder to crank. In my opinion, all you need is a light coating for the 113h reel.

I do not believe the +1 drag installed will cause difficulty in cranking. I say this (I might be wrong;if so, someone please correct me) because having a thicker drag stack would only cause a "forever on" tension when you back the star drag off when trying to pull the line out the reel to string it through the rod guides. Other than that, it should not have an impact when you are just cranking the reel.

If its not making any odd noises or feeling weird, it just might be the grease on the gears.

Hope this helps....

Alto Mare · May 27, 2011, 12:41:34 AM

Do you have any sideway play with the spool? The spool should not be tight, you should be able to feel a little movement when you move it side to side. If you don't feel any, back up the left side bearing a bit and see if that helps. I think your problem is related to the bearings being too tight.

13starsinax · May 27, 2011, 12:45:22 AM

yes your reply makes me feel a lot better. i really didnt go overboard with the grease..well it really isnt making any "bad" noises just feels diferent, and something i tried after my first post is after i tightend the drag all the way down it feels a little bit smoother in that position than with drag all the way out. the spool has very little play but it does have some but i will try to back out the left bearing also. thanks guys keep them comming

Alto Mare · May 27, 2011, 01:09:02 AM

Don't go overboard on that bearing, all you need is very little movement. A drop of reel-X on the bearings would help.

13starsinax · May 27, 2011, 01:23:27 AM

yes sir i understand seems like a dab will do ya when it comes to the oil.

Taily · May 27, 2011, 02:12:16 AM

A couple of questions for you R.W....

When you pulled the reel apart did you pull the pin out of the sleeve at all to grease the sleeve/bridge? If so, does the sleeve have two holes that the pin may be re-installed in? Sometimes (with that design of sleeve) if the pin is re-installed in the upper hole the sleeve can be tight to turn.

.... and....

What type of 113H are we talking about here? The earli(er) type (maroon bakelite sideplate with a small LH side plate bearing carrier) has a chromed brass drag cover that allows the drags to be removed from the reel without disassembly of the reel (larger designed aperture in the maroon bakelite sideplate). I have found the odd reel of this earlier design seems to want to bind the gear on the inside of the sideplate slightly (especially when using a Newell 4:1 gearset) if installed with a +1 (under) drag set-up. Some of these sideplates have enough room in them to be dremmelled out, some don't.

Regards,

Dave.

13starsinax · May 27, 2011, 02:41:16 AM

taily,
i did not pull the pin to grease it it was spinning freely. this 113h does not have the plate that alows you to remove the drags from the front you have to break it down to get to the drags. it has the stock gear. what do you think about the fact that when i crank the drag down tight its smoother? and now though i am assuming that all is well with my rebuild im just not used to the fact of having a reel so tight and fresh. sounds kind of dirty, but you know what i mean.

Norcal Pescador · May 27, 2011, 03:29:40 AM

Welcome to the forum R.W. -
If it still feels tight after trying all of the above suggestions, try reassembling the reel without the belleville washer. Your reel can function fine without it and the right sideplate may just be too crowded with the belleville.
Keep asking for help and we'll keep trying to help.
Rob

13starsinax · May 27, 2011, 12:56:14 PM

thanks for the welcome, and i will try to pull the beveled washer out if it continues to bug me. its really super smooth with the drag locked down and in free spool it spins for dang near an infinity. like i mentioned before i think it really is that i have not had a freshly serviced reel in my hands. just to think now i get to tear into my other ones. this site is all to blame for reel grease on the kitchen table too..got my wife all fired up too. guess she was really doubting id get it back together so got to do a little dance and jig on that one.

alantani · May 27, 2011, 03:52:17 PM

grease on the kitchen table? that little stunt is what got me banished to the garage. push the lever into the "free" position and crank the handle. do you notice slight resistance when you crank the handle?

Alto Mare · May 27, 2011, 04:45:24 PM

Quote from: 13starsinax on May 27, 2011, 12:56:14 PM
thanks for the welcome, and i will try to pull the beveled washer out if it continues to bug me. its really super smooth with the drag locked down and in free spool it spins for dang near an infinity. like i mentioned before i think it really is that i have not had a freshly serviced reel in my hands. just to think now i get to tear into my other ones. this site is all to blame for reel grease on the kitchen table too..got my wife all fired up too. guess she was really doubting id get it back together so got to do a little dance and jig on that one.

If you back the drag all the way and the spool doesn't spinn when in gear, leave that belleville washer in there.
About the grease on the kitchen table, I hate to tell you, it will get worse. All of my t-shirts have a spot of Penn grease in front, next time I go shopping I will bring a little of that grease with me to match the color, that should keep the wife quiet.

By the way Welcome!

13starsinax · May 27, 2011, 09:50:36 PM

well guys i got home and checked your questions out, and thanks for the replies..alan yes in free spool when initial cranked it does have very slight resistance. alto..when the drag is fully backed out and craked it will slowly turn the spool.

Alto Mare · May 27, 2011, 10:57:13 PM

I parsonally don't believe that there is anything wrong with that reel. I would leave everything as is, maybe a drop of reel-x on both bearings as I mentioned earlier and that's about it. You could try cranking down on the drags up to the point that you're able to hold the spool with your other hand and spinn the handle for a little while, it should set itself in nicely.

13starsinax · May 28, 2011, 12:07:42 AM

well your reading my mind thats what im thinkin! im gonna give her a run for the money tuesday i will let you all know.thanks again this is great to talk to you fellers.