Vintage reel models in 2011?

[Alto Mare]

If you're not that good with your thumb, It should also help keeping the line nice on the spool when retrieving.

[Makule]

Narrowing a reel like the 500 Jigmaster to a 501 gives you a little more cranking power.

My impression was that cranking power was a function of handle length, gear ratio, and spool diameter (with line).

I still don't understand what the objective is, and how making a spool narrow accomplishes it.

[Keta]

The cranking power does not change when narrowing a reel. 
The line lays down on a narrow spool better so less experienced anglers don't lock up the reel with a hump of line in the center, they cast better and with Spectra line the higher capacity of a standard width spool is not needed.

[redsetta]

Spot on, Lee.
Narrow frames are also less likely to torque when under heavy drag pressure.

[floating doc]

The jigmasters are also getting a new following with the growing popularity of Kayak fishing. They're tough reels and from what I've learned here, it's an advantage to have spool bushings when the reel might be getting dunked.

This should be a good example for Africa: think of a Jigmaster as a 1980 Hilux. In 2001, I bought a 2000 model Tacoma with 12,000 miles on it from a Toyota dealer as a certified used car. The damn thing had a bent frame! As for the Hilux (known here in the USA as a Toyota truck; no model designations back then), watch this Topgear UK video. You can't kill one.

[Brendan]

     I always thought narrow spools meant less drag on the guides with line going out on a cast. I know for a fact it's easier to keep the line packed on the spool better with a narrow spool. Just my .02. And after working on a couple of spinning reels, guiding line and thumbing a spool is time well spent.
     Tight Lines, Brendan.

[Maxed Out]

First off, vintage reels are in demand because of thier simplicity to service, even by a novice like me. 2nd they were made in a time when quality really made a difference. In todays world most are shopping for the "most bang for your buck" and quality falls to a distant 2nd.

Talk to an old school guy like Dom or Sal and they'll tell you that function is more important than looks. Talk to a young lad and he'll tell you that it is always "form over function", that is just something that is called a "generation gap", and it is a huge gap indeed. I am an old school penn guy and the jigmaster is a reel that has outperformed any other reel ever produced to try to match it, it is also very easy to work on and after 50 years it still is a solid workhorse that cannot be beat by even a cheaply produced made in china reel at todays prices. Same as the old senators.

Sadly, today penn is not the proud USA company it once was and all but the international model are outsourced to China, but if Otto Henze were alive today he would put all of those China reel manufacturers out of business because he understood the meaning of quality.

BTW, Otto Henze was the founding father of penn reels, circa 1932....God bless him !!!

[Makule]

Talk to an old school guy like Dom or Sal and they'll tell you that function is more important than looks. Talk to a young lad and he'll tell you that it is always "form over function"

You are so right.  Us old guys are more concerned with function than looks, while still appreciating good aesthetics when applied properly.  It's very hard to find any of the younger guys who are not more concerned with the bling than the bang.  Even if they don't catch a single fish, they still want to upgrade to something supposedly better, just because it looks good and it offers "bragging rights".  For us, the bragging rights came with the fish caught, even if it was caught on a stick with string.  For them, since they can't catch the fish, they brag about what they buy.  As they tell me, "If you can't catch fish, better to look good doing it".  As far as I'm concerned, if you can't catch fish, it doesn't matter what you look like, and it's worse if you've got the best equipment (because then there is nothing else to blame but yourself).

It's hard to understand how companies like Penn can't see the writing on the wall, when so many others are taking substantial market share from them by producing products based on what they initially designed and promoted for many years before any of  these newer companies were born.  Why did it take a Newell Co., or Jvariance, or Tiburon, Accurate, Avet, etc., to come up with improvements to Penn products when Penn could have more easily done that themselves (they already had the distribution network, manufacturing facilities, know-how, staff, designs, tooling, etc)?  Even now, with Newell being "reborn" via Valley, Penn could have immediately come in and taken advantage of the gap that was created during the hiatus when Newell reels were not being produced and parts unavailable.  Same with the Accurate situation.  I did not think of Penn as being a super-large corporations that is typically too big to quickly adapt and take advantage of changes in market demand and competition, but it's sure is behaving that way.  I like Penn products and 90% or my reels are Penns.  I really hate seeing what appears to be happening to the company.

Don't misunderstand, I like the Senators and think they are great reels.  With the exception of one Newell, those are the only reels I use for casting (and the Newell usually stays at home).  When the company brings out a campaign to make a big deal about bringing back the large models, one has to wonder why they are going backwards.  Can't anyone in the company come up with a different line that is significantly better, while still retaining the good traits as well as the right price points?  Other companies seem to be able to do it.  Methinks they should contract with guys like Alan, Sal, and others on this Forum, to help them design something totally different that will help them to once again stand out amongst the crowd.  Seriously!

[Clem]

You make some good points Makule/Max

The generation gap is an interesting topic. I made the point about my nephew in a previous post - thinking that he needed the latest and greatest to chase kingfish. I'm 42 years old, so older than some and younger than others..what surprises me the most is what some of the younger generation are willing to spend on tackle. I had an old Silstar GXB for 15 years..it was the poor mans version of the Shimano bait runner of the time..it gave up in the end when the cast gear cracked. That was attached to a no name rod that together accounted for some good fish over the years.

The technical side of tackle has always interested me and this was really the motivator for me to look at more of the high end equipment available..my friend Darryl was the warehouse manager for Thompson walker (NZ distributor for Penn) for a number of years and I spent a fair amount of time in their warehouse with him servicing reels or pulling things apart. I like the Penn gear, all I ever wanted was an International but could not afford to buy one back then.

In regard to the point above, tackle manufactures need to smarten up...like all business things change. Don't get me wrong the principles don't or shouldn't but these days you have to be savvy. Fishing is big business and lots of people realize that and want a part of it - Without actually knowing, I would say that the amount of disposal income spent on tackle today is significantly higher as a percentage than 30-40-50 years ago. Sadly making a good quality product that does its job well and has good pedigree will not assure you of continued success. For many years, I along with many other people fished with handlines...very few do today. The younger generation all seem to have a rod and reel from an early age, their parents obviously have more money than ours did back then  . This continues though..it would be interesting to see what age groups spend the most amount of money on tackle? I'm guessing the age group has lowered over the years..

Look at some of the newer companies and what they are doing...right or wrong. Look at Jigging Master? I had no idea who they were...I did a bit of research and found lots of references to them on the internet (smart use of media).. after reading and watching (youtube) I started to understand what they were about. Their marketing was "smart", take a proven design, make a few changes, get on respected charters, catch good sized fish and put in on the internet...obviously not quite that simple...but you get the point....add a range of rods and accessories and you're good to go.

Years of pedigree required? no.. proven quality? not really..good design? yeah, twin dogs, long handle.. PRICE? - hmmm...(if we can make it popular, people will pay)... and they were right. I feel for Penn....but you cant stand still..

[Normslanding]

Just like the small block Chevy. They are simple, have standardized parts, and lots of after market stuff. This continues the longevity.

[Normslanding]

Woops I forgot one thing. Also low gear ratios on some of the reels. For many old school guys, and some applications lower gear ratio it an advantage. The Japanese reel company's have marked higher gear ratios. This is mostly sales/ marketing. Granted there are some applications were 6, 0r 7:1 is of value. Two speeds are great. But so is 2.8:1 for Grouper, or a old Penn 60, 65, to put your "OLD" Powerhouse transition on. Jigmaster started the Higher gear ratios at 4:1. Then Diawa Sealine, etc. The Jigmaster, and Penn level winds are lower gear reels, easy for captain and charter customers to use. And they are easy to repair. IMO.

[Keta]

I really hate seeing what appears to be happening to the company.  

Penn Reel company was extremely conservative when jumping on the "new and improved" bandwagon for years (sometimes new and improved isn't) but the new owners are not so set in their ways.  Look at the new reels that Penn has come out with recently, I haven't used my FA25N yet but so far the new Fathom series of reel look like another good reel by Penn.

[alantani]

the new reels are the result of new ownership!

[Makule]

I really hate seeing what appears to be happening to the company.  

Penn Reel company was extremely conservative when jumping on the "new and improved" bandwagon for years (sometimes new and improved isn't) but the new owners are not so set in their ways.  Look at the new reels that Penn has come out with recently, I haven't used my FA25N yet but so far the new Fathom series of reel look like another good reel by Penn.

Yes, what you say is true also, and I thought about that as I wrote my previous comments.  Still, what it reminded me of was Ford and GM who, resting on their laurels and not being appropriately concerned about the products being turned out by the likes of Toyota, Nissan, etc., lost their dominance in the market to the point where they became runners up to the upstarts and faced bankruptcy.   Now, they are playing catch up to the other auto manufacturers, and even though they are attempting to come out with hybrid vehicles, more fuel efficient engines, etc., with new leadership, the other companies have been working on those technologies since years ago and already have excellent technology and products.  

It is really sad that the two companies who essentially controlled the entire US auto market at one time, lost so much in a relatively short period (I like, and drive, a Chevy).  While the consequences may seem somewhat limited at first glance, think about the overall impact to the US economy.  Can Ford and GM and Penn once again become the top dogs in their respective fields?  Perhaps, but it will be extremely difficult if not impossible.  What they failed to do was to remember a fundamental basic of business, namely, competition.  They acted like giant monopolies, and fell to the tiny Davids.  

What I suggested earlier was that if Penn does not want to become another GM and end up having to do the bankruptcy thing, they should corral all of the Davids in the industry that are taking away market share and make them part of their company.  Doing that, I believe, will give them a fighting chance against the likes of Shimano so that they will not continue to fall further and further behind, and lose even greater market share.  For the consumer, it will be a great thing as the increased competition will result in much better products being produced.

[Keta]

Hopefully the new owners will continue making the good "old" gear and modern reels.