113H SS 4:1 gear set sticking

[CaptainRMF]

Good morning guys I need your Brains. I upgraded a friend's 113H to SS pro challenger 4:1 gear set, SS yoke and eccentric jack yesterday. Complete service on internals and drag washers. All back together and when cranking it growls a little louder than the brass set that was original. Is this normal for SS gears. Does it break in and quiet down later. Also the worst part is in free spool if I tighten down the drag and hold the spool from spinning and crank it gets louder and I can feel the gears sticking or jumping. Doesn't do it if drag is completely loose though. This is my first time using SS parts. Took it apart again this morning and measured main gear and pinion and are exact same size as the old set I took out. Went over everything again put back together and same problem. I could use your help Oh Knowledgeable Ones !!!                                                                                                                      Thanks              Richy

[RowdyW]

It's perfectly normal for SS gears. It should quiet down some with use under a load. It will never get as slooth & quiet like a bronze main gear.            Rudy

[xjchad]

It's perfectly normal for SS gears. It should quiet down some with use under a load. It will never get as slooth & quiet like a bronze main gear.            Rudy

This is my experience with SS gears as well. 

[CaptainRMF]

Hey Rudy, I kinda figured they would be a little noisier. I'm sure my friend could live with that since he fishes about everyday he will wear it in quickly. My concern is the problem when it's in free spool. The gears should not get louder, stick or jump when I hold the spool from spinning while cranking and tighten the drag down. There should be no noise at all. I've taken it apart 3 more times this morning. First time put the brass eccentric jack back in same problem. Second time put the brass yoke in too same problem. Third time I put back original main and pinion gear. Works like a charm absolutely no noise in gear or free spool while cranking. This doesn't help me cause he wants the 4:1 gears. I just can't figure out why tightening the drag makes that problem happen. Gonna have a couple of beers and try again. Someone here smarter than me will figure it out in the mean time. Thanks

[xjchad]

Richy,
Is the spool centered in the frame?

Maybe the jack is not pushing the pinion far enough away from the spool to completely disengage?

I had to tweak the ramps on the jack once to allow the pinion to travel far enough to clear the spool shaft.

[Alto Mare]

Richy,
Is the spool centered in the frame?

Maybe the jack is not pushing the pinion far enough away from the spool to completely disengage?

I had to tweak the ramps on the jack once to allow the pinion to travel far enough to clear the spool shaft.

What he said above.

Sal

[Rivverrat]

 What you are describing can be normal with these gears. If I crank the drag down on my Fathom 25N's  with lower gear set.... Best way to describe it is it feels like the pinion is grinding on the yoke. I spent literally hours trying to figure it out. Another member here, Lee, looked at my reel & we discovered his reel does the same with gear set when you crank the drag into 13 - 15 lb. range. Being that I no longer use this reel every day like in the past I chose to live with it.

  EDIT: My apologies. I do need to slow down when reading posts. I did not have the issue in free spool that you describe & the mechanics of these two reels is slightly different. I agree Chad is steering you in the right direction on this... Jeff

[CaptainRMF]

Richy,
Is the spool centered in the frame?

Maybe the jack is not pushing the pinion far enough away from the spool to completely disengage?

I had to tweak the ramps on the jack once to allow the pinion to travel far enough to clear the spool shaft.

Hey Chad, the spool is center as far as I can tell. It doesn't feel like the pinion is rubbing the shaft part it feels like the pinion teeth are rubbing on something maybe the top of the main gear teeth. The spool has great free spool if I spin it by hand, no rubbing or noise. I just put the SS gear set back in but used the brass yoke and eccentric and it got better but not gone. Does tightening the drag push the pinion down at all or pull the main gear up I'm on my 3rd beer now and it's driving me nuts.

[xjchad]

Tightening the drag should not move the pinion or main gears.

Sometimes with the SS gears, the groove in the pinion where the yoke rides has pretty sharp edges.  Maybe when in freespool, the pinion has a little more play and the edges of the groove and teeth of the pinion are catching the edges of the yoke slightly?
The brass yoke is softer and would be more forgiving, but won't last as long.

Maybe try some emory cloth or a fine file to break the sharp edges of the groove and teeth of the pinion as well as the edges of the yoke.

Custom parts often need some fine tuning despite the high quality and tolerances to which they are made.

[CaptainRMF]

Tightening the drag should not move the pinion or main gears.

Sometimes with the SS gears, the groove in the pinion where the yoke rides has pretty sharp edges.  Maybe when in freespool, the pinion has a little more play and the edges of the groove and teeth of the pinion are catching the edges of the yoke slightly?
The brass yoke is softer and would be more forgiving, but won't last as long.

Maybe try some emory cloth or a fine file to break the sharp edges of the groove and teeth of the pinion as well as the edges of the yoke.

Custom parts often need some fine tuning despite the high quality and tolerances to which they are made.

Hey Chad, that sounds logical. I know the SS parts have a tighter tolerance just didn't think it was that tight. Gonna have to take it apart again and will try to ease all the edges of the pinion and yoke and put back together with all the SS parts and see what happens. Want to thank all you guys for the help. I figured if anyone knows the answer they would be here on Alan's great site. Will keep youz updated on what happens.                                                                                                                  Richy

[mo65]

  I know this situation too...about the drag tightening thing...been here a few times. What happens there is when that main gear starts to "lock on" to the gear sleeve it no longer gives when it passes a tight spot. It can brush something...the pinion...or the side plate...and translate as roughness. The tips the fellows have given will help. I've found that just spooling the reel by hand, under pressure, really smooths out that stainless.

[xjchad]

  what happens there is when that main gear starts to "lock on" to the gear sleeve it no longer gives when it passes a tight spot. It can brush something...the pinion...or the side plate...and translate as roughness.

That makes a lot sense Mo, thanks for that tip!!

[Maxed Out]

Make sure the yoke is right side up.

In freespool the yoke can slightly move around, and this is why your noise increases when in freespool. Take yoke and pinion gear together in your hand and make sure it moves freely in the slot

[handi2]

You don't have to use the SS yoke. You will have to change it each year. Try it with the stock yoke just to see.

Keith

[oc1]

Is there any lateral play in the sleeve and handle?  What is the under-gear washer like?
-steve