Raw graphite blanks: coatings, etc?

[JasonGotaProblem]

One of the blanks I'm looking at is raw graphite, seemingly without any finish. Do i need to/should I coat it with anything before I start building? Why or why not?

[oc1]

It's probably a matt finish.  All the same material is a shiny blank, just without the shine.

[ReelFishingProblems]

I've got a similar issue, two blanks without gloss finish. I have CPXtra on the way to put a coat on the whole blank.

[Swami805]

Cpxtra is good stuff read the directions carefully. There's a little learning curve to get a good result.  There's a tutorial online by saltydawg that's pretty good.  Also store it upside down once opened, it will last longer

[oldmanjoe]

   NO don`t do it , you`ll make the rod heavy .!!!    How raw is it , was it sanded yet or does it still have the spirals on top ?

[jurelometer]

Matte finish used to only be available on high end blanks.  Supposedly harder to hide defects, keeps the blank lighter, and more stealthy when wade fishing.

There is no need to paint or add a gloss finish unless you are into that kind of thing. Painting could have  a small risk of solvent damaging the epoxy resin in the blank.  It might void the warranty.

All epoxy finishes have issues with UV  degradation.  So if you fish a lot in bright sunlight, a coated blank can look pretty crappy over time.  Most folks don't fish enough to see it.  I have a couple factory gloss finished rods that look like old faded lawn furniture.  They still fish fine, but are not going to impress anybody.

A bit of carnuba wax applied for maintanence can help stave off the inevitable.

-J

[ReelFishingProblems]

One blank I have that is matte is a Phenix Black Diamond Hybrid, the other is unbranded. I am getting the feeling that I should leave the Phenix as matte.

[Midway Tommy]

Oldman Joe is absolutely on the money! Rod finishes add weight and usually look like crap unless done by pro or at a factory.

I hate matte and dull finishes. I tried a thin coat of rod finish on one rod years ago and hated that worse, just as Joe noted.

I found what I think is a great alternative, a wipe on coat or two of Penetrol. It soaks in a little bit and also leaves a thin protective coating that doesn't add any weight. It is simple to put on and gives the rod a beautiful smooth and even satin finish. I have rods it has been on for fifteen years and they still look like new. If it would happen to fade all that is needed is to clean the rod & add another coat, it only takes about five minutes to wipe on & overnight to completely dry. I no longer care if I buy a blank that arrives with a dull or matte finish. Actually I would rather have them that way so I can coat them with Penetrol.

I coat the blank with Penetrol between the guides after the wraps are finished to make sure the wrap epoxy sticks correctly. I also seal cork grips with it. It darkens the cork just a little bit but sure keeps it from getting dirty.

The top five rods in this photo were originally matte or dull and have two coats of Penetrol. You can enlarge it for a better look by clicking on it two times. 

[Rivverrat]

 

                   Refinishing a rod will not add weight. If done properly. I have used this product for a few years now. They key to getting a good finish is sterile cleaning. I use a tack cloth . A tack cloth is the fastest way I have
                 found to properly clean a blank after sanding & prior to applying finish. Use no pressure on tack cloth just lightly passing over as the rod / blank spins in your lathe.

                This is the same finish used by many such as United Composites... Jeff           https://voodoorods.com/products/cpxtra-rod-finish

[oldmanjoe]

I don`t know if you have watched any u tubes , if you watch a few different one you begin to see 'The why " rods are different .
 

[Jeri]

Over a number of years, the amount of finishing applied to carbon blanks after they come out of the ovens or autoclave has changed according to market desires.

Once a blank comes out of the oven, and the containment wrap is remove, it is left with an outer coating of the binding resin, which is hard and has a spiral texture related to the containment tape wrapping. This id a 'raw' blank, and for a long time this was how a lot of blanks were sold, and are still available today.

Subsequent procedures then finely sand the ridges of this spiral finish off and a proportion of the hard resin outer shell, and machine operators of this stage need to be highly skilled, of they can sand too far into the carbon fabric of the blank.

Blanks are then cleaned and applied with a wide variety of coating from coloured to plain and matt black. All these coatings add weight, obviously dependant on the thickness and nature of the coating. The value of the coatings is mostly cosmetic, and offers little in the way of benefit to the longevity of the blank from UV exposure, as the resins that bind the carbon fibres are not adversely affected by UV light.

Personally, I have rods that still have the hard spiral (unfinished) state that are over 35 years old, and show no signs of external deterioration. Two manufacturers that we use for our surf rods, supply the blanks unfinished to me deliberately, as that I find is a less problematic finish to rods than various 'paints'. It is hard to scratch and shows little or no deterioration over time, and for my mind provides a tougher outside shell to the core of the blank, than sanding and 'painting'. One particular rod with this finish is my own personal surf rod, and has been very heavily used for the last 6 years will absolutely no external blemishes, despite having been knocked around quite a lot.

In our refurbishment side of works on surf rods, we usually remove all the factory applied finishes, and then just sand the blanks to remove any fines scratches. The carbon blank is then left un this sanded but otherwise unfinished state, and then rebuilt with guides and handles etc. It does tend to leave the blank a matt grey colour, but then once finished we just give the rod a coat of normal domestic furniture polish, this finish then lasts as long as the customer desires or can be reapplied by them. This unfinished finish has not seen any problems with longevity on the surf rods, despite our environment being quite aggressive in a UV and salt sense, some have had 10 further years of heavy use - to date.

What we have seen in a lot of cheaper factory finished rods and some higher priced products, is that the 'paint' has covered up areas where the blanks have been excessively ground to the point where fibres of the matrix are heavily exposed due to over grinding, or less skilled machine operators.

Personally, I much prefer to very raw, unsanded blanks.

[JasonGotaProblem]

As usual this thread has exceeded my expectations, thank you all. Given this new info I need to take a closer look and see if my initial assumption was correct or is it just a matte finish.

So assuming it is truly raw, what grit sandpaper is safe to use on it?

Also to be clear I do not dislike the matte finish. In fact I kinda like it. I'm just not accustomed to it.

[Tiddlerbasher]

As I'm primarily a freshwater fisherman - fly/lure, I want a matt finish blank - no flash in bright light conditions.

[Swami805]

CPxtra is very thin, the consistency of water. Any weight gain would be a small fraction of a gram. A bit tricky to put on, the working time once applied is less than a minute.  It isn't a thick 2 part finish, I'd imagine it's thinner than a coat of paint

[steelfish]

with the risk of not been considered a "serious" rod builder, which Im not, I doing it for the fun of it but I really enjoy to learn from the serious rod builders as Jeri, Sheridan, Dwight, etc.
But I think sometimes we take this "rod building thing" as if its a rocket science, all I can say to Jason is to keep asking and read about a product that someone recommend you, if you want to try it go for it and test it, you will learn 3x faster by your own experience than reading specially if the rod is for your personal use, maybe you might want to buy some $5 to $10 dlls fishing rods (around 3-5 rods even broken rods) on your local flea market to try the products before use it on your brand new blank, its not like you are gonna experiment on a $250 UC, Seeker or caltar state of the art blanks and toast them.

you are not saying the specs of the RAW graphite blank you are looking at but 2grams of clear coat, a 2grams of paint wont change that much the action of the blank specially if its not one of those expensive blanks or a specialized blank as Northfork composites, Black holes, etc.
by the kind of rods Im building which are mostly for weekend warriors you already know that my builds are more into enjoy the fishing day with a fishing rod that you like how it feels and how it looks but some Rod Builders and fishermen are more into getting the best of a blank with the less guides possible on the rod, the lighters reelseat, minimal tread work and minimal epoxy because they add un-wanted weight on the rod and kill the action and sensitiveness of it.
I say build a fishing rod you will enjoy for everyday use and use the accessories and components of your choice but its always important to learn about how to get the best from a good blank and try to keep its specs and performance at the best level possible just add your personal touch.