Can we talk about Spring Washers

[Mic]

 I'd ask if we could talk about ducks, but I really don't want to talk about ducks.

When do change or recommend changing spring washers ?

Is there some crazy darn way to test a spring washer ?

Is there a chart which would depict sizes of spring washers (ID, OD, thickness)

Are spring washers made of different materials ? (copper, brass, SS)

I've been rebuilding a couple of reels and found one spring washer from one manufacture that seems to fit in a different manufactures reel. Do manufactures offer a spread sheet that states their size and what reel they go to ?

Well,
I guess that's all for now


Mic

[RowdyW]

Log on to McMaster-Carr for sizes & thicknesses. I don't know of anyone offering a spread sheet.      Rudy

[oldmanjoe]

   I think we should talk ducks , because there is many types of ducks .
    Just like spring washers ,there are many types .
 

I've been rebuilding a couple of reels and found one spring washer from one manufacture that seems to fit in a different manufactures reel. Do manufactures offer a spread sheet that states their size and what reel they go to ?
     Now i assume you really don`t want to talk about spring washers ,but maybe wave washers

   This may help
https://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/mechanical_components/springs/wave_washers#:~:text=Wave%20washers%20provide%20a%20compensating,or%20compensate%20for%20dimensi

[Gfish]

Mcmaster-Carr will give you thickness at full compression and compression ratings. For me the deal with reel washers, would be to know a pressure curve for the various washer types. Then again, I can't imagine what would be the best curve? Fast ramp-up, then slows down towards full compression? The opposite? A steady ramp-up to full compression? Would have'ta test it on various reels...

[RowdyW]

I've generally found that thinner washers ramp up slower & thicker washers ramp up faster as a general rule.

[jurelometer]

That is a nice informative link Joe!

Here is the short answer to the specific questions from the OP:


  If the spring washers get too soft over time, you might find that you are no longer able to reach your max drag setting without bottoming out, or maybe more revolutions than you would like.  The wave washer will only have an effect (if any) at light drag settings.  The  reels might  have a set of a different type of spring washer (beleville), that you can mess with to control the fine tuning and range of your drag settings.

If you are happy with the granularity and range of your drag settings, there is nothing to change or adjust.

As to the material used, it has to have a high modulus of elasticity, and a low propensity for creep or fade over time, which in practical terms means that the material has to be able to be tempered.  The rules out copper, brass, etc, and mostly leaves us with martensinic stainless steel.



Here is the long answer:


First let's differentiate the species of ducks:  There are two types of spring washers that you will find in a reel.

First, we have wave washers. Which are wavy  .  Wave washers are normally used to apply some force against two surfaces that are not clamped tightly together, to provide some amount of alignment or a bit of back pressure.  A wave washer can help hold the star setting at very low clamping loads. Once the washer is flattened, it just acts like a normal washer. Folks often remove the wave washer when  adjusting stack height on a saltwater (strong drag) reel, usually without ill effect.

Belleville (conical) washers are cup shaped.  They provide more subtantial spring force than a typical wave washer. 

Bellevilles can be stacked, and most reels that use belleviles have more than one.   Both the number of washers and the orientation of the cup faces will change the strength. If the cups oppose each other like this "()()()", the spring load wil increase less per revolution, but will have greater maximum travel. When  the cups are nested  and reinforcing each other "((((((",  load increases more per revolution, but less maximum travel.  A combination is often applied, for example: "()()(("

Additionally, as Greg noted, you can get washers of different thickness and cup depth, which will effect the spring strength and travel.  The math for taking the revolutions of the star to clamping load with the springs is pretty straightforward, but clamping load to drag gets a bit more sketchy.  In most cases, trial and error with few more or less bellevilles of the same dimensions as the originals and messing with the orientation is sufficient.

You tweak the spring orientation and count to get both the stack height you need for sufficient travel for max drag, and the granularity of adjustment you prefer.

Lever drag reels are a bit more particular, as a typical lever alows a smaller range of spring contraction  (the height of the cam) compared to  a typical star drag which  you can simply keep rotating, giving your greater range to play with.

The experts here that fine tune lever drags will keep a stash of a variety of bellevilles, and futz around a bit more to get the right combination of washers size, strength and orientation, to have just the right drag range desired.

I like to tweak my fly reels so that I only have to go 3/4 turn from line stripping tension (to prepare for a cast) to favorite fighting drag setting.  Having to rotate three or more turns makes it more likely to loosen too much and get a backlash when stripping in a hurry, and then missing the proper tension when tightening again.  This tweak is possible to do on drawbar style fly reels that have room to replace the coil spring withe bellevilles.

-J

[oldmanjoe]

    Let`s put a nother duck in a row .
   For the one`s that love math .     https://www.engineersedge.com/belleville_spring.htm