New bearing oil, has anyone tried this out? Deuthon Ultra Casting Lube

[wussero]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has tried this ultra casting lube yet on bearings.  I have no engineering background, but the demo videos in the site looked good.

I bought some to try
For the engineers and folks out there, please tell me what you think?

https://deuthlon.com/collections/sports-fishing-reel-maintenance

Thanks.

[MarkT]

Same as I said on BD...

They start with meaningless gobbledygook acronyms and go downhill from there. I'll stick with TSI-321 in my spool bearings and grease in the non-spool bearings and Cal's on the drag washers!

[philaroman]

skimmed the gobbledygook...  didn't see ingredients anywhere -- specifically, no "synthetic"
could be lard w/ PTFE, for all you know    prob., petroleum-based -- usable, but inferior & overpriced

don't like the adhesion spiel: can't adhere to parts better, if dust adheres less
what, is the grease smart, like a Thermos?
I mean, it keep hot stuff hot, it keep cold stuff cold...  HOW DO IT KNOW 

[Glos]

I`m suspicious about that drag force increase of up to 100 %.
I would think it makes the discs stickier. Strength of drag is something that depends on all components, not only the amount of disc slippage.
If it`s made to work on 5 kg. you won`t make it better with something sticky enough to make it 10 kg.

That, and referring to fisherman 9 outings as something that proved anything..

[jurelometer]

Another no vote on trying this stuff.  No company address, only an email address.  Just some anonymous person in Kuala Lumpur (according to the domain name registered via GoDaddy    ).

Anybody that wants to get into the reel lube business just needs a a web site, a couple gallons of standard lubricants and a funnel.  Fishing reels are not very demanding in terms of lubricant performance.  Reel specific lubricants are most likely just repackaged general use products from the big manufacturers.

Actual lubricant manufacturers provide the data that allow you to compare a product's properties against your requirements and against competing products.  The specialty "magic" reel lube companies do not.  Instead, you have to rely on trial and error for the (usually overpriced) stuff packaged and sold as reel lubricants. Plus, the "magic" reel lube companies often do not provide a Safety Data Sheet (SDS) that outlines the risks (including health), and how to safely use the product. 

One reason for not providing an SDS, is that the actual manufacturer has to be identified. And with the manufacturer name  and key ingredients from the SDS, you can often find the original product -sometimes the original product name is on the SDS.   A magic reel grease that sells for $20 an ounce could turn out to be a standard commercial product that sells for $5 per lb.

For a thin film lubricant to use on bearings involved on casting on conventional reels, TSI products are well regarded here. Several threads on TSI on this site.

Hope this helps

-J

[wussero]

Interesting enough, i was looking at TSI321 and motor oil.  0w-10 motor oil actually will flow  better than TSI321.  What you all think of that?  Would it have the corrosion protection needed?

Well i bought several bottles of the Deuthon. And will let everyone know what I find out.

Currently I am using Penn Synthetic oil.  It does seem it last good for awhile.  I had one bearing that needed a cleaning.
I have these at my disposal:
Ardent Rell Butter
Penn grease
Yamaha Marine all purpose grease
CAL'S drag grease.

[Glos]

Same mistake as with drags sticking harder. If it is meant to flow - viscosity be at a certain level, more of it in a sense of flowing around, doesn`t mean better. It simply means less, maybe too light, on viscosity.

[tincanary]

A big no from me.  I usually find these "magic" lubricants used on a lot of the enthusiast oriented sites which I will not name.  No technical data sheet?  No MSDS?  Not something I'd trust, and most of these lubricants marketed towards enthusiasts have no published data.  There's a term for that kinda thing, snake oil.  I'll give you a rundown of stuff I myself use as well as many other seasoned techs. The thing about marketing, people will buy a steaming pile of dog crap as long as the packaging is pretty and it's chock full of terms open to interpretation.  Kinda like essential oils and Himalayan salt lamps.

Oils:
TSI 321 (spool bearings)
Super Lube ISO 220 (frame bearings and worm gears)

Greases:
Cal's Tan (conventional reels and larger baitcasters)
Cal's Purple (smaller baitcast and spinning reels)
Yamalube (conventionals and larger baitcasters)
Super Lube PTFE (smaller baitcast and spinning reels)

[wussero]

Interesting enough,  major brands also dont offer technical data of properties of lubricants as well. 
For example the Penn stuff, same deal. 

How long does the 321 last for?  What will happen if you go fishing and its 30 degrees outside, will it work okay?

[wussero]

A big no from me.  I usually find these "magic" lubricants used on a lot of the enthusiast oriented sites which I will not name.  No technical data sheet?  No MSDS?  Not something I'd trust, and most of these lubricants marketed towards enthusiasts have no published data.  There's a term for that kinda thing, snake oil.  I'll give you a rundown of stuff I myself use as well as many other seasoned techs. The thing about marketing, people will buy a steaming pile of dog crap as long as the packaging is pretty and it's chock full of terms open to interpretation.  Kinda like essential oils and Himalayan salt lamps.

Oils:
TSI 321 (spool bearings)
Super Lube ISO 220 (frame bearings and worm gears)

What is the ideal  velocity for bearing oil then?

[Wompus Cat]

Interesting enough, i was looking at TSI321 and motor oil.  0w-10 motor oil actually will flow  better than TSI321.  What you all think of that?  Would it have the corrosion protection needed?

Well i bought several bottles of the Deuthon. And will let everyone know what I find out.

Currently I am using Penn Synthetic oil.  It does seem it last good for awhile.  I had one bearing that needed a cleaning.
I have these at my disposal:
Ardent Rell Butter
Penn grease
Yamaha Marine all purpose grease
CAL'S drag grease.

Has GOT TO be LEGIT since it is on FACEBOOK as Suckerbug would not allow it if it were not so .  




Thanks  wussero for taking the time to post about it and Welcome to the Forum.
It could actually Work but has a lot of der VOO DOO in der advert.

Waitng to see your report on how it works for your applications.

[tincanary]

Interesting enough,  major brands also dont offer technical data of properties of lubricants as well.  
For example the Penn stuff, same deal.  

How long does the 321 last for?  What will happen if you go fishing and its 30 degrees outside, will it work okay?

The major brands don't post a MSDS or technical data because like was said above, it's most likely relabeled stuff that can be had much cheaper.  Penn doesn't make their own grease, it's made by X-1R Corp down in Florida who makes lubricants for automotive, marine, and aerospace.  Not publishing technical data of lubricants seems to be unique to the fishing hobby.  If you like to fix clocks, watches, cars, or and kind of machinery or precision instrument for that matter, the lubricants will have technical documentation.  Most stuff people on this forum use does have a MSDS and technical data sheet.  TSI, Cal's, Yamalube, Corrosion X, Super Lube, etc all have published and easily found technical data.

As far as TSI goes, it works great in the cold.  TSI isn't really oil, but a dry film lubricant that bonds to the metal and fills in any microscopic pores.  Not much is needed.  I like to cut mine 1 part TSI to 8 parts 99% alcohol, dip the bearing, spin it dry, and it's ready to go.  You don't need to go as far as I do with it, but the performance is certainly better.  As it is, TSI is already a very low viscosity lubricant, ISO 10, which is almost like a water consistency.  If I'm not cutting it with alcohol, I'm applying it with a 22AWG needle dropper.  A little goes a very long way.

Here's a tuned Abu 4500 of mine, with cut TSI in the spool bearings and applied to the idler bushing, worm gear, and a few other friction points.  Each of those friction points was polished with a Dremel and wool buffing pad beforehand.  I use this fishing winter steelhead.  This is only a two bearing reel, everything else is bushings.

[Glos]

Just for the record. Super low viscosity powder can`t be equally seen in that matter as oil.
Meaning if it works like that in powder, similar reasoning won`t do in oils, since those have to adhere, stay in place .

[jurelometer]

A big no from me.  I usually find these "magic" lubricants used on a lot of the enthusiast oriented sites which I will not name.  No technical data sheet?  No MSDS?  Not something I'd trust, and most of these lubricants marketed towards enthusiasts have no published data.  There's a term for that kinda thing, snake oil.  I'll give you a rundown of stuff I myself use as well as many other seasoned techs. The thing about marketing, people will buy a steaming pile of dog crap as long as the packaging is pretty and it's chock full of terms open to interpretation.  Kinda like essential oils and Himalayan salt lamps.

Oils:
TSI 321 (spool bearings)
Super Lube ISO 220 (frame bearings and worm gears)

What is the ideal  velocity for bearing oil then?

velocity= how fast
viscocity= how thick


the type of product that is best for you depends on what you are looking for:

Greases are oils with a thickener to keep the lubricant where you want it, but the thickener provides some resistance.   More of an issue with ball bearings than plain bearings (bushings).  Most of the greases mentioned in this thread  are NLGI 2 thickness (about like peanut butter- the most common grease thickness).  In colder climates or with lower resistance demands (like spinning reels) something like NLGI 1 is often used, or people sometimes mix the grease with another lubricant to thin it, which is a bit of a gamble, as not all products are compatible.


Grease is very useful for bearings.  It provides the most corrosion protection and longevity.   But when used on higher RPM spool bearings, grease can greatly affect casting distance, especially if the bearing is fully packed with grease. 

Oils are just greases without the thickeners.  You can get to much lower viscosity with oils, but the lower the viscosity, the faster the oil will migrate/drip out from where you want it. 

Thin film lubricants often come in liquid form, but as Tincanary noted, the liquid is just a carrier that evaporates, leaving a thin film residue that acts as a lubricant.  A good thin film will generally provide the least resistance, and will provide corrosion protection when first applied, but will tend to get worn off in spots, requiring more frequent service. Thin films are mostly used for spool (casting) bearings, if the least resistance possible is preferred.

Most folks here fully pack saltwater conventional  reel bearings with grease, except for the spool bearings used in casting.  For casting bearings, sometimes grease with a  light touch is used, sometimes oils, and sometime thin films.  Spinners and freshwater conventional reels tend to get lighter viscosity lubricants.

At the grease end - better lubrication, better corrosion protection, longer maintenance intervals.  At the thin film end, more free spinning for the bearings- but not as good at everything else.  Oils are in the middle.

What is best for you depends on the reels you are using, how you are fishing them, and how diligent you are in the maintenance.

I think there is value added  in a company vetting lubricants for reel usage and packaging in small quantities useful for fishermen and then collecting an reasonable profit for the effort.  The honest way to do this is to be transparent about the products you are repackaging.    There is little value added by claiming that you have invented something magical, charge an unreasonable amount, and hide the SDS.   At that point, you are not selling reel lube, you are selling snake oil.

Just for the record. Super low viscosity powder can`t be equally seen in that matter as oil.
Meaning if it works like that in powder, similar reasoning won`t do in oils, since those have to adhere, stay in place .

Partially agree.   Take PTFE (Teflon)  powder for example.   It works as a lubricant because it is super slick, plus resistant to most acids and solvents, so it does not want to adhere to anything.   In greases, it can be held in place mechanically by the thickener.  In oils, there is some chemistry (that I don't understand) that helps keep the particles in suspension.  The specific chemistry is usually a trade secret, but in the trade rags there are articles that mention how difficult it is to keep PTFE powder from separating and settling.   

The thin films have to penetrate into the pores in the metal and then solidify, sort of jamming in and creating a mechanical bond.  As you noted, the bond from substrate to lubricant will not be completely durable, which is why dry films lubricants tend to not last as long on sliding and rolling surfaces. And unlike oils or grease, there is not more lubricant adjacent that will flow in to relubricate.

This just comes from reading about the stuff.  I am not trained in lubricants, so I might have gotten some of the details wrong.

-J

[Glos]

I was simply pointing out that low viscosity in one form doesn`t apply in another, form of lubricant.

Because when someone reads how lets say TSI 321, has very low viscosity, and as such is accepted and functional, many of the novices will not take into consideration that it is powder. And conclude that say Ow 10 motor oil is equally better - because it is thinner, than some other oils.

Btw, I tried using NLGI 00 lithium grease in reels, and it works like a charm, when reel is 2 thirds filed with it,         ..until the oil part in the grease, starts leaking out, from casing. .
As with all greases, oil slowly gets released, to perform the needed function.