Why wont star drag reels get reel binding vs Lever drag?

[danw9009]

Hi all

I understand that Lever drag reels get binding when the drag is high due to the load distorting the spool side bearings?

For star drag reels the star drag is also exerting pressure on the drive shaft bearings so why doesnt it get reel binding?

Also is it possible to have a lever drag design but on a star drag reel? ie drag cam and lever replaces star drag and is housed around the drive shaft?

cheers!

[sabaman1]

Tiburon makes a reel like that with a lever and star adjustment. It also has an automatic 2 speed when set properly.

[day0ne]

Hi all

I understand that Lever drag reels get binding when the drag is high due to the load distorting the spool side bearings?

For star drag reels the star drag is also exerting pressure on the drive shaft bearings so why doesnt it get reel binding?

Also is it possible to have a lever drag design but on a star drag reel? ie drag cam and lever replaces star drag and is housed around the drive shaft?

cheers!

The drag on a star drag reel doesn't put pressure on any bearing, unless there is a bearing on the gear sleeve, it puts pressure on the main gear. A lever drag puts pressure directly on the pinion and pinion bearings, especially the right one. totally different design. If you put a cam, lever, etc on a star drag reel, it becomes a lever drag reel. BTW, Tiburon doesn't make reels anymore and that wasn't how they worked

[Cor]

Hi all

I understand that Lever drag reels get binding when the drag is high due to the load distorting the spool side bearings?

For star drag reels the star drag is also exerting pressure on the drive shaft bearings so why doesnt it get reel binding?

Also is it possible to have a lever drag design but on a star drag reel? ie drag cam and lever replaces star drag and is housed around the drive shaft?

cheers!

The drag on a star drag reel doesn't put pressure on any bearing, unless there is a bearing on the gear sleeve, it puts pressure on the main gear. A lever drag puts pressure directly on the pinion and pinion bearings, especially the right one. totally different design. If you put a cam, lever, etc on a star drag reel, it becomes a lever drag reel. BTW, Tiburon doesn't make reels anymore and that wasn't how they worked

I have little experience with lever drag reels and when I saw this I started wondering. 

• Lever drags by their design have stronger drag systems which for a started puts more pressure and torque on everything.
• The pressure is also applied to the spool, whereas a star drag it is only on the main gear, which transfers to the spool through the pinion (the latter probably being the weak point).
• I think the pressure that lever drags develop is indeed on the bearings, but on the spool bearings and it is also a side pressure which tends to push the spool out of alignment?

Looking forward to more explanations.

[Shellbelly]

Also is it possible to have a lever drag design but on a star drag reel?

I have seen a couple of larger Senators, say 10/0 at least, with a lever drag "kit" installed on them.  These were listed on the bay and from Japan.  The descriptions weren't translated very well, so I wasn't able to learn much.  I would say, yes, there's an app for that.

If anyone has a reel with an aftermarket lever drag, I'd like to see how it fits and works.

[Keta]

....If anyone has a reel with an aftermarket lever drag, I'd like to see how it fits and works.

They are a lever replacement for the star and maybe a gearsleeve with different thread,   possibly a triple lead thread.

[Ron Jones]

....If anyone has a reel with an aftermarket lever drag, I'd like to see how it fits and works.

They are a lever replacement for the star and maybe a gearsleeve with different thread,   possibly a triple lead thread.

Accurate had a kit for the Senators for a while. I never could understand what advantage they were supposed to provide.
Ronald Jones

[jurelometer]

....If anyone has a reel with an aftermarket lever drag, I'd like to see how it fits and works.

They are a lever replacement for the star and maybe a gearsleeve with different thread,  possibly a triple lead thread.

Accurate had a kit for the Senators for a while. I never could understand what advantage they were supposed to provide.
Ronald Jones

Agreed.  If you want to toggle between two drag settings, turning the star is not THAT difficult.

It can be possible to finagle a lever onto a star drag reel by fabricating a couple parts,  but it doesn't really turn it into the equivalent of a lever drag reel. The drag  mechanisms on these two types of reels are built into different shafts which leads to a bunch of design limitations and benefits that are different.

Getting back to the original question of why a lever drag binds and a star drag does not:

The drag mechanism on a lever drag reuses the ball bearings already utilized for radial load (casting/winding) as thrust bearings meaning that the inner race is forced in one direction  along the shaft, and the outer race in the other.  When the clamping load gets too high, the races are no longer aligned and the balls get jammed up.

On a star drag, there are separate (plain) bearings for radial and thrust loads on the handle shaft/gear sleeve. On a classic Penn star drag, the under-gear washer is the thrust bearing, and the bushing (or hole) in the center of the main gear is the radial bearing.

-J

[Shellbelly]

Agreed.  If you want to toggle between two drag settings, turning the star is not THAT difficult.

I'm with you.  Seems like a lever kit would be more of an ergonomic addition.  I've never used a lever drag, though.

[Shellbelly]

Here are a couple of mods I found.  These appear to be a lever replacement of the drag star.

[day0ne]

Here are a couple of mods I found.  These appear to be a lever replacement of the drag star.

Not sure how that works but it still isn't a lever drag reel. Changing the star to a lever (or anything else) doesn't make it a "lever drag reel". Totally different engineering between the two reel types. Jurelometer is correct:

"It can be possible to finagle a lever onto a star drag reel by fabricating a couple parts, but it doesn't really turn it into the equivalent of a lever drag reel. The drag mechanisms on these two types of reels are built into different shafts which leads to a bunch of design limitations and benefits that are different."

[Robert Janssen]

Daiwa Sealine No 45

[jurelometer]

Daiwa Sealine No 45

Nice find!

What an odd duck.  I would attribute this design to the rampant use of psychedelics during the 70s.


Also narrow spool with a levelwind, and a lever for the clicker.  So much incongruity packed into a single platform.  Plus wait... There's more.  There are these extension plates that you can screw onto the foot, which you then flip around and mount on top of the reel, converting  it into in a 70s "underhead" reel.

If they recommend a lever drag on the next long range tuna trip, show up with one of these puppies. I mean, like what could possibly go wrong

But seriously, I would like to see the parts for the drag adjustment mechanism. Can't make a mental picture of how it works.

I think that the customization on the Penn that  Shellbelly posted is doing some sort of auto drag adjust when you turn the handle.  It looks like the "lever" is connected to the gear sleeve, and is what will actually turn the main gear.

Has every possible oddball fishing reel permutation already been attempted?  Sure seems like it sometimes.

-J

[boon]

But seriously, I would like to see the parts for the drag adjustment mechanism. Can't make a mental picture of how it works.

In my head I'm picturing a thrust bearing on the drive shaft, held in place by a cross-pin or C-clip, that a cam sits underneath. Almost inevitably means taking a load on the sideplate of the reel, unless you have some super complicated telescopic driveshaft.

[jurelometer]

But seriously, I would like to see the parts for the drag adjustment mechanism. Can't make a mental picture of how it works.

In my head I'm picturing a thrust bearing on the drive shaft, held in place by a cross-pin or C-clip, that a cam sits underneath. Almost inevitably means taking a load on the sideplate of the reel, unless you have some super complicated telescopic driveshaft.

Oooh!

I am with you so far, Boon.  That explains how the lever can add load to the drag without spinning with the shaft when the handle is turned.

but, but, but...

How does the "fine tuning knob" add clamping load to the cam or drag stack and still allow for a rigid handle arm to shaft junction.  I cant think of anything yet that is not complicated.  Still confused, but maybe that's me

-J