Old Shimano TN-20 problem

[sebastianr240]

Hey all,

I just picked up an old gold TN-20 today. It works flawlessly, aside from the fact that there seems to be a lot of drag even when the drag is backed all the way off on the star. So much so that I'm concerned if I put the rod down on the rail and got a fish on, it could pull the rod 'n reel over into the water. It's even worse with the clicker on. What could be causing this? The reel seems to have the original old hard drag washers but the drag is butter smooth after applying some Cal's. Just very tight even with the star backed all the way off.

Thanks for any thoughts,

-Sebastian

[Gfish]

Not familiar with the Trinidad models. Sounds like something in the drag stack is reversed or not lined-up so it fits right. Or, if it has a drag spacer, you might haveta take some material-off.

[sebastianr240]

Not familiar with the Trinidad models. Sounds like something in the drag stack is reversed or not lined-up so it fits right. Or, if it has a drag spacer, you might haveta take some material-off.

All of the stuff is in order according to the schematic. As soon as i pop it in free spool everything works properly. This is quite the mystery to me

[Rivverrat]

 I've only had one of these in my hands, I'll save you how that went.

 Anywhooo I'm not that familiar with its inner workings. However this is a star drag. The fact it spins when disengaged is telling. Just a shot in the dark ... Is there possibly an xtra drag / metal washer or two in the gear ? That u may have missed ?

   Few things to check. Its sometimes easy to miss a washer or two that's left in the gear. Meaning to many washers in the stack.  Check also that the gear & drag stack are fully seated. Another possibility is wrong washer / washers that are to thick.   If you get it sorted please let us know how or what happened ... Jeff 

[steelfish]

The reel seems to have the original old hard drag washers....

"SEEMS to have".. did you opened the reel? so are you sure they are the original Dartanium washers or carbontex? there is only one correct answer.

.....but the drag is butter smooth after applying some Cal's.

if the drag washers are the stock ones, you should not apply Cals grease to them, you only make them slippery thats why they are butter smooth, Cals grease and Shimano drag grease should be only applied to Carbon fiber drag whashers.

my though on your problem is that the inner tube of the IAR bearing might not be sit correctly on the upper drag washer, another idea is if the reel has aftermarket drag washers and they are DIY ones maybe the drag sheet they used to make the washers was thicker than the stock washers and carbontex drag washers (it has happened to me before on another reels) but it hard to give a better opinion without seeing all the parts of your reel of the drag stack

[alantani]

the drag stack is likely all gummed up.  the original hard carbon drags are horrible.  i'd recommend switching out to greased carbontex drags.  you'll be amazed at the difference. 

[sebastianr240]

Steelfish and Alan,

You guys nailed it. The grease was gumming up the drag. The only reason I applied it was because the washers seemed to have some sort of drag grease on them when I originally opened the reel, which is what was causing the problem in the first place. I put them back in dry and the problem disappeared, and the drag is still operating smoothly. I am a fan of carbontex... but as they say, if it aint broke dont fix it. As soon as the drag starts causing problems from use... I will replace it with carbontex.

Needless to say this was my first run in with a trinidad, I didnt know about the click spring under the star until it went flying out of it's hole never to be found again   
I already ordered a replacement.

Thanks all!

[Rivverrat]

Thanks for reporting back. I learned something ... Jeff

[steelfish]

glad you could fix it

gold trinidad reels, one of my favorites reels was the TN-16, I had two of them the only reason I got rid of them was because they were traded out for a Trinidad 30DC    (I still havent used it on a fishing trip  )

them, months later I got a TN-40 from a guys that didnt wanted to repair it

nice reels, too bad the replacement parts are becoming harder to find year after year.

[Gfish]

Cool! Looked at a schematic. Nice Shimano. The 2003version had an AR bearing and the 2005had an AR pawl on the main gear+the AR bearing(much better IMO). Never thought It'ed be just that. I too, have learned something new.

[sebastianr240]

Cool! Looked at a schematic. Nice Shimano. The 20003 version had an AR bearing and the 20005 had an AR pawl on the main gear+the AR bearing(much better IMO). Never thought It'ed be just that. I too, have learned something new.

I heard some horror story about the AR bearing giving out and then the pawl as well leading to a knuclebuster.. hope that's not the case for me. I was planning on using the reel for mostly kingfishing anyway, so shouldn't use that much drag.

[boon]

I believe many of the parts from a same-generation Torium will interchange, including the gears (obviously you have to change both main and pinion) in a pinch; albeit the Torium gears are quite geary compared to the Trinidad.

The antireverse failures are an interesting one. I put them down to a reel that came along around the same time as widespread adoption of braid; suddenly you could cram a whole lot of 50lb braid on a TN-20 and the drag stack would actually provide something close to a useful matching level of drag, but the antireverse was never designed for it.

If you fish a TN-20 as a 30lb reel the antireverse will never be a problem, in my experience.

[sebastianr240]

I believe many of the parts from a same-generation Torium will interchange, including the gears (obviously you have to change both main and pinion) in a pinch; albeit the Torium gears are quite geary compared to the Trinidad.

The antireverse failures are an interesting one. I put them down to a reel that came along around the same time as widespread adoption of braid; suddenly you could cram a whole lot of 50lb braid on a TN-20 and the drag stack would actually provide something close to a useful matching level of drag, but the antireverse was never designed for it.

If you fish a TN-20 as a 30lb reel the antireverse will never be a problem, in my experience.

Ive seen this braid argument a few times. Can you explain how braid affects the drag? I assumed that it would be the same with mono except for stretch? Not sure how braid would put more pressure on the drag.

[steelfish]

too bad trinidad DC springs and dog are practically unobtanium, with the stock IAR bearing and the clicking antireverse dog the whole Antireverse system was bulletproof.
I had my trinidad TN-16 upgraded with DC dog and spring and caught lots of leopard grouper and YT without any problem.

I saved two of those unobtanium dogs and springs for long time and now are installed on the gold trinidad 40 with double clicking dogs, many prefer silent dogs but I like to hear the sound of a safety reel.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Ive seen this braid argument a few times. Can you explain how braid affects the drag? I assumed that it would be the same with mono except for stretch? Not sure how braid would put more pressure on the drag.

Suspect the answer is that the strength of braid relative to diameter, allowing the use of more of a reel's drag. It allows a user to lock down the drag all the way and try to fish it without expecting the line to snap instantly.

Using a baitcaster as an example bc it's easy to do so, figure an old abu 5500 is designed for 10-12# mono. To get proper line lay you need to roughly match the specified line diameter. So for this example the braid equivalent of 10# mono is 40# braid. Setting the drag to 1/3 the mono line's rating would put you around 4# of drag. The reel's max drag is irrelevant because you're fishing it at 4# of drag and it can do that all day.
But throw some 40# braid on there. With that braid you can do whatever you want with the drag without fear of the fish snapping your line. And its true, the line will be fine. But you might shred those brass gears that were designed for 12# mono.

With 10# mono, the line is the weak point. The reel is safe unless you drop it. With 40# braid, the line maybe isn't the weak point anymore.