Okuma Andros binding (and possible bearing problem?)

[paal]

I have an Andros that has binding when cranking in strike position, at 9lbs drag. And the binding is not a constant (smooth) resistance when cranking, there's a slight but noticeable variation to it. If one revolution with the handle represents 60 mins, then the "peaks" in handle binding occurs every 3-5 minutes. If I ease down on the drag (say, to 5lbs) then the binding disappears, and the "variation" disappears with it.

I have an unused TLD15, which I used to compare, and at similar drag setting the binding is smooth, with no noticable variation.

I opened it up for inspection, and I see no gear damage/wear (it hasn't been used much).

I'm pretty sure it is not corrosion, because there was absolutely no sign of water intrusion, and I've used Alan's bearing packer for the shielded bearings (the ones that are absorbing the load from the drag).

I did not ruin the bearings with too much drag preset. I am familiar with the weakness of the radial bearings to excessive sideways load.

Now to my question:
- Is this to be expected? Will there be more "roughness" to the reel/bearings when it is used for a while? Or is this the first sign of shot bearings?

As you probably have figured out, this is my first lever drag reel. I've only used star drags this far in my career....

Thanks
Paal

[alantani]

right main side plate bearing.  it's the weak link in all lever drag reels.  i'll bet that's it......   

[paal]

I see no other possibility either... But I can not for the life of me understand what happened to the bearing(s). I fished this reel well within spec at all times, and corrosion is out of the question. I noticed that it has the high quality EZO bearings in the right places (right side plate, left spool bearing), so this should never have happened...

Just to be sure, I'll explain it more in detail. When cranking at 9lbs drag/strike, I use just enough force to overcome the binding. At this slight force, the handle starts moving, but hits a "peak" at about ~3/60 of a revolution of the handle. I must then increase the force of the handle a bit to make it move again. The same will then happen after another ~3/60 of a revolution, and it goes on for the entire revolution. Like noted above, I can not feel anything like this on my brand new TLD15....

I plan on taking it back to the shop, it's still under warranty. Just wanted to check with the Okuma experts first, so I don't make an #### of myself.

So everyone agrees that this reel should not have any "variation" in binding when cranking the handle at 9lb drag @ strike? It should just be a very smooth resistance, right?


Thanks,
Paal

[alantani]

any amount of water in the bearing can cause this.  it is the single most common problem.  that's why these bearings have to be packed with grease. 

[wallacewt]

my andros was packed with grease and is very smooth.spoolbearings oiled.drag,freespool very good,beautiful reel
i dont wash my reels,wipe with a damp soapy cloth and spray with mx3 inox.

[paal]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Because I packed the bearings from the start, I think there is very little chance that this is corrosion. I can't rule it out, because I did not open the bearings (yet) to inspect, but I plan on doing so. Also, I'm a "newbie-packer", so I'm not sure if a packed bearing is 100.00% waterproof

But if we rule out water, could this be caused by wrong lubrication? I can not get hold of Yamaha grease in Norway, so I bought some very tacky marine grease that I had to thin with some ReelX. Is it possible that this turned into an inferior lubrication that ruined the bearing. even if water didn't enter?

BTW: this is the marine grease I used for packing the bearings (very "rigid" stuff, cant use it without thinning it):
"Shipmate Marine & Trailer Grease is a revolutionary new grease incorporating the latest breakthrough in high-temperature, water-resistant lubricant technology. It provides superior mechanical stability, high temperature protection (+500 F), and load-carrying properties essential for high-speed boat, utility, and snowmobile trailer bearings. In addition, Shipmate Marine & Trailer Grease has exceptional resistance to water and especially bearing corrosion. ASTM 100,000 stroke tests show no change in consistency even when mixed with 50% water, unlike other premium greases which slump or break down with as little as 2% water. Shipmate Marine & Trailer Grease will not washout of bearings even under total immersion."

[JGB]

Paal,

Just so we are clear on how your creating the 'binding'.  Are you cranking against the drag (turning the handle while the spool is held still)? Or are you letting the spool spin with no load and feeling the 'binding'?

If you are letting the spool spin freely then it is most likely a bearing issue. You could have your mixed grease packing in side the bearing as a stiff lump. Bearing damage due to over drag will show up as a rumbling or noise from dents in the ball or race. Uneven bearing drag from rust or galling is a steady or undulating increase in needed effort to turn the bearing.

If you are cranking against the drag ( no spool rotation) then what you feel is normal and varies from reel to reel. What is important is that the drag when pulling out line is smooth and consistent. I have 4 Andros and 3 out of the 4 will pulsate while turning the handle against the drag.  This has to do with the pressure plate being free floated off the pinion gear and is more noticable at lower drag settings.
For the record the Makiara drag does not pulsate in this fashion at drags greater than few pounds. Dual plate drags have their advantages.

Jim N.

[paal]

Jim, thanks for the in-depth explanations

I'm cranking with the drag lever in strike position (9lbs of drag) with absolutely no resistance on spool. The only resistance in the system is whatever the bearings are doing.

I've thought more about the DIY-mix I injected in the bearings. If it turned bad/has lumps in it, then the variation in force needed to crank at constant speed should be present also at lower drag settings. But if I ease back on the drag lever, say, to 5lbs drag, then the binding, and the variation (or undulation) disappears.

So, I think it must be in the drive train itself somewhere.

And because it is a direct function of applied drag, I think it must be the bearings.

But since the bearings are packed with state-of-the-art corrosion protection, and I never exceeded the recommended drag preset, it really doesn't make any sense to me. If they were cheap bearings from the 3rd world it still could make sense. But these are high quality Japanese ABEC 5 bearings..... 

[alantani]

you can crush the bearing with enough pressure.  it's not hard. 

[paal]

Yes, that's a risk with these reels. But that shouldn't be the case here, because I did not mess with the preset before loading line. And only then did I adjust the preset, staying within the spec of this reel. Unless it's possible to make dents in the balls by adjusting the drag to 10lbs at strike, and then push the lever to max. This is within the spec of the reel, so I've been assuming that it's OK to do this.....

Another factor is what the reel has been through at the shop before I picked it up.....

[redsetta]

Another factor is what the reel has been through at the shop before I picked it up...

Anything's possible paal
I recently did two right-side main bearings in reels that had never been out of the shop, due to over-zealous customers...
Might as well replace the bearing.
Even if it doesn't fix the problem, you'll be one step closer.
Good luck, Justin

[paal]

Thanks Justin! Thinking more about this scenario, my Andros was in fact one of the very first of its kind to arrive in Norway. I guess there's a fair chance that more than one person wanted to check it out..... 

[paal]

I finally took the reel back to the shop, where we compared it to a brand new Andros, which had none of the roughness when cranking with similar drag setting (and no other load anywhere). A phone call later, and the two expensive EZO bearings were on their way by mail. I received them yesterday. Didn't have chance to swap them yet....

Okuma has great customer service!

[Iceking02]

Paal,

Did you replace the EZO bearings and correct the roughness while turning the handle? Have you seen any problems with corrosion of the drag plate since using the reel?

Bob

[paal]

Hi Bob, didn't see this before now. I've been using it with the old bearings, did not have much time yet for tinkering. Thought it would be kind of interesting too, to see how long it would take before it got really bad. It is still usable... On the water, with jig weight and line out, the roughness isn't noticeable.
Did not see any drag plate corrosion, but I'm always keeping the lever in strike when washing it, or whenever it could get soaked. And in free when storing. I believe that helps a long way.