No drag on a Vintage TED WILLIAMS 535.38490 Sears Roebuck Casting Fishing Reel

[oldmanjoe]

    Good find Jay .     The 535 prefix is suppose to designated Shakespeare .   But does have a Bronson flair to it as far as the handle .   4.45 through 7.50 explains it well.

 Did not find the schematics for this reel yet .   https://www.reelschematic.com/reel-schematics/shakespeare-reel-schematics/#gsc.tab=0

[thehorseman@bellsouth.net]

Very nice video but it still didn't solve the mystery drag issue. But it does let me know what wrong. In the video the drag wheel turns both ways. But some how on my reel it's locked up. It won't spin backwards, only forward.
And I've been a member of ORCA for several years. I checked and didn't see anything for this reel.
Thanks for your response !

[oldmanjoe]

The drag wheel will only turn clockwise. It's like a gap was created when I removed the handle and that's what's stopping the drag from working. No loss parts as I have two reels that are a like doing the same thing.

The picture shows that it has left hand threads on the drag star shaft .  Turning it clockwise will remove the drag wheel from the stem .   You are holding the stem from turning with the handle correct ?    You can also hold the stem with a wrench and than loosen the drag nut .

Is there a ratchet on that model that won`t let the stem to turn counter clockwise ?

[jurelometer]

From the looks of the photo, the star won't spin backwards (counterclockwise) because it is jammed against the housing. no more room left to go.

It has to be able to turn forward back up toward the handle.  Nothing is impeding it.  You might need to grab the shaft with a crescent wrench or something to get it started.

there is a possibility that the anti-reverse (dog?) got loose with the handle removal.

There are parts/schematics manuals for the Shakespeare reels all through the 60s at ORCA.  I would think trhat there has to be one there for a similar model to yours.

-J

[thehorseman@bellsouth.net]

I've tried to loosen it but it is locked. I still don't know how or why it locked and how to
Unlock it

[Midway Tommy]

But does have a Bronson flair to it as far as the handle .

The handle knobs on Horseman's reel are standard Shakespeare Ted Williams from that era.  All these were made by Shakespeare & the right one is a TW model. 

[thehorseman@bellsouth.net]

These are not stand as yours. These have a freespool button . None of the ones you posted have a gear box between the handle and the reel.

[jurelometer]

I've tried to loosen it but it is locked. I still don't know how or why it locked and how to
Unlock it

Turn it the other way.   It is reverse threaded.  There is nothing  blocking the star in the direction  of the handle.  If the shaft turns with the star, hold the shaft by the flats with a crescent wrench.

[Midway Tommy]

These are not stand as yours. These have a freespool button . None of the ones you posted have a gear box between the handle and the reel.

No doh! , I was only referencing the fact that your reels are Shakespeare made. 

If you are an ORCA member there are plenty of Shakespeare Level Wind schematics in the Harvey Garrison Library, a couple similar to the ones you have, you just have to jump in there, dig and work your way through them to find one that's the closest fit to yours. You're not going to find one in the Ted Williams or Sears sections. The drag systems are really not that complicated, though.

[Gfish]

I think Dave and Joe got it. I Have a Shakespeare 1796 EK(1961)spincaster. Clicker, no anti-reverse, level-wind and push button. It has that large washer on the outside of the handle and yes the threads are left-hand. The drag-star turned counter-clockwise lossens the drag and the handle will flop up and down a bit. Clockwise tightens the drag. With left-hand threads this means the star moves towards the handle. Pulling line out with drag pressure has the handle nut, washer and star spinning counter-clockwise, so, it's about putting friction on both sides of a stable handle.
Thinking you may have reassembled the drag/handle parts the wrong way. If you want I can disassemble mine and lay out the parts and take a picture. I remember when I got it several years ago, it took me a long time and several times to reassemble it so it worked right.
Good eye Dave and Joe.

[thehorseman@bellsouth.net]

That would be awesome! If you could make a close up video of the drag wheel being removed and re-installed that just might do it . If the video is to long for here you can send it to my email @ thehorseman@bellsouth.net
Many thanks

[thehorseman@bellsouth.net]

First I want to thank you all for your responses and help. Let me see it I can help clarify more clearly what my issue is.
1. Yes I know how a drag works
2. I know that by tightening the drag wheel it makes tension against the drag washer on the handle.
But what the issue is on these two reels is some how the drag wheel is seized up and will not turn in the direction needed.
Yes, it's that simple, if I can be able to move the drag wheel it would fix my issue. But I'm trying to get them loose to the point I'm going to break the reels. What I love about collecting is "saving" old reels not destroying them.

[Gfish]

Ok. Church, football and dinner with an Island newbie today, then back to work tomorrow, gimmie a few days.
Kinda sounds like the stars got cross-threaded.

[Midway Tommy]

First I want to thank you all for your responses and help. Let me see it I can help clarify more clearly what my issue is.
1. Yes I know how a drag works
2. I know that by tightening the drag wheel it makes tension against the drag washer on the handle.
But what the issue is on these two reels is some how the drag wheel is seized up and will not turn in the direction needed.
Yes, it's that simple, if I can be able to move the drag wheel it would fix my issue. But I'm trying to get them loose to the point I'm going to break the reels. What I love about collecting is "saving" old reels not destroying them.

Are you sure you know how it works? There are 12 to 14 additional parts, depending on which model, not including the 6 you removed outside on both sides of the handle, that makes up that entire mechanism. There are also drag washers, and other components, inside that domed housing. The outside washers are not the only drag components.

It's becoming more and more evident that something moved or came apart inside when you removed the nut, handle, washers and star. It's more than likely you are going to have to take the reel apart to find out where the inner problem lies. Shakespeare made multiple versions of that star drag free spool style of reel. There are schematics of some them in the Shakespeare part of the schematic section in the ORCA Harvey Garrison Library. Since you say you've been an ORCA member for several years you should probably look through the Shakespeare free spool schematics there and find the one closest to your Sears & TW reels so you can take it apart and put it back together correctly.

Hope you get it figured out. If they worked prior to you removing the handle and you didn't lose any parts it should be doable. Good luck.     

[jurelometer]

Pulling line out with drag pressure has the handle nut, washer and star spinning counter-clockwise, so, it's about putting friction on both sides of a stable handle.

I was wondering about that.  Are you sure that the star spins when the spool turns under drag?  I wouldn't be that surprised, I guess.  I couldn't think of how the mechanism would work otherwise.  And don't get your sleeve caught in the star on a fast running fish!

Assuming that the star is not simply cross threaded:

I think Tom is right. It is not clear to me from the OP's description, but it sounds like maybe the bottom shaft is turning with the star, hence preventing it from spinning outward toward the handle.

If the star (and therefore the shaft) turns as line is taken under drag with this design as Greg has noted, then it seems unlikely that a detached dog/ratchet would be the cause.  But there has to be something that provides enough resistance so that as you tighten the star the shaft does not spin with it.  It might be as simple as holding the shaft with a crescent wrench, loosening the star a few turns away from the housing and then fiddling with turning and lifting until the the base of the shaft drops into some sort of slot or keyway.  Otherwise,  you may have to take it apart and figure out how it works.  If you do, please share some photos and/or a video.  I am curious as to how the mechanism works, and the guys here might be able to help you fix it.

-J