Chapstick for lubricating knots

[MexicanGulf]

I read an article in a well-known fishing magazine where it is recommended to lubricate the knots with chapstick, natural without chemicals, to lubricate the knots. Has anyone already tried? feedback for this system?

[MarkT]

I use saliva but then I'm not a fly fisherman!

[jurelometer]

I use saliva but then I'm not a fly fisherman!

Hey! Only ethically sourced natural spring water in recyclable glass containers for us real^tm fly fishermen.  But some of the old timers still use lip balm made from 100% organic bees wax produced by union bees.

But seriously, the only credible studies that I have seen are from the medical side for sutures.  Studies find that the monofilament and braided line knots surgeons use will slip more readily when lubricated with water or other substances.

AFAIK,  the fishing literature on lubricating knots is all unsupported assertions or "tests" that contradict each other but do show that we all probably have a high variance in breaking strength when repeatedly tying the same fishing knot.

If you want to lubricate to help cinch down a type of knot that tends to slip, water is not a bad idea.  It is a reasonable lubricant, and the line is going to be wet anyways. You won't be making things any worse.

I am fighting the urge to go down yet another science based rathole, this time on knot theory.  There is a thread that discussesd this recently somewhere on this site.

-J

[MexicanGulf]

Very interesting...

[CooldadE]

Ear wax ! Run what you brung... it's kinda like WD40 works on most anything.

Cool

[Keta]

It might help for tying heavy flurocarbon but for 150# up I crimp. I can tie heavy mono but heavy flurocarbon is too stiff to chinch done right.  And I always have spit handy.

[Midway Tommy]

I only use mono, and on the lighter side to boot, less than 12# test. I don't think wetting the knot is imperative on good, newer mono, but I have found, from experience, that once my mono has seen quite a bit of use, wetting my Palomar knots helps prevent them from breaking on the cinch down.

[thorhammer]

1) Chapstick is not "all natural, without chemicals".
2 "All-natural" lip balm still has chemicals; they are just naturally occurring chemicals.
3) Just because it's "all-natural" doesn't mean it won't degrade things. "All-natural" flavors and fragrance are still made with essential oils, which as aromatic compounds can be really good solvents (think citrus-based cleaner; they generally have a large d-limonene constituency). Animal fats can be caustic: it's why you don't cure cast iron skillets with bacon grease. SOAP is a salt of a fatty acid.

I'm not advocating use or non-use in this application, just clarifying the terminology. I've been in the industry for 35 years in R&D, Manufacturing, and Quality Assurance, and have made or currently make two of the three big names you think of when someone says "lip balm". IF I was gonna use one, it'd be Chapstick regular vs. Burt's Bees, tho. Burt's has a lot of Yakima peppermint oil in it.

John

[Keta]

How about streight bees wax?  I have a lot of it from my bees.

[oldmanjoe]

  Spit in the hand , good for sealing a deal with a hand shake and fishing knots .   

[oc1]

I lick the knot for lubrication to make it easier to cinch it down.  Hopefully, the fish don't mind.

[foakes]

Lee is correct about the Beeswax.

It is good for a lot of things and projects.

I was taught this many decades go by and old-timer who was a Master Carpenter.

Currently, I am installing 6X6 gussets onto 6X posts and headers at a 45° angle.  These 8" X 3/8" Strong-Ties are construction and code approved grade.

Some guys try and screw them in without a pilot hole, and that sometimes works.

Some guys drill a smaller pilot hole, and that works better, and is an easier and quicker install.

However, I buy a soap bar sized cake of beeswax from any hardware store such as ACE —- just rub it over the screw threads, and it goes in quickly with no resistance or squeaking or pre-drilling.

$1.50 at ACE, and will do about 300 of these large construction screws.

There are a lot of things common around our homes, that are cheap and effective for hundreds of things.  Vinegar, baking soda, and beeswax.

Worth a shot.

Best, Fred

[jurelometer]

Very interesting...

We had a thread about this guy before.  I find his presentation style so annoying that it is nearly unwatchable, so I just sped through, but it appears to me that he did not specify if he gave the lubricant a chance to wash off as would happen in real life.  Or if he tested the knots wet, which matters much more when you are testing lubricated knots in nylon monofilament. But I may have missed where he discusses this 

Plus there is huge variability in the results- I saw one that had something like 1.5X the breaking strength from weakest to strongest on one combination of knot/lubricant (ten attempts).  Either he can't tie a palomar knot in 80 lb leader very well, or the lubricant is introducing the variability, in which case the average breaking strength is pretty much useless data. We should usually care more about the minimum strength we get from a knot, and not nearly as much about the average.

Standing next to a knot machine and displaying graphs does not mean that the claims are reliable.

Still going dry, water, or saliva myself.   I haven't seen anything to change my mind.  Knots work by friction.  Using a lubricant that does not wash off in water decreases the friction after the knot is done being tied.

-J

[MexicanGulf]

I actually have to agree with you. 

[Midway Tommy]

I use saliva since it's a simple and consistent tag along whenever I'm out fishing.