Modified cat's paw connection

[MexicanGulf]

I have always had a certain interest in alternative solutions to what is usual. I found a discussion in which an alternative method for this connection is discussed. Does anyone among you already know it, have you done any experiments? 

[Keta]

It looks like it would work.  I have never had problems with a double catspaw though.

[MexicanGulf]

I don't like it when the "cat's paw" joint becomes too bulky. For this reason I look for an alternative solution, often on the Tip I don't have a roller Tip but a normal ring guide.

[jurelometer]

This is essentially a loop to loop system where a loop to loop system is at a disadvantage (casting).  The "cat's paw" helps flatten the loop for casting, but the better answer is not to use a loop to loop.  A few extra loops can hep spread out the compressive load across the braid strands.  It can also help if the braid can dig into the loop material on the other side, but that will not be an issue here.

As far as I know, twisted step down mono leaders came from the fly fishing side as a a way to make a leader that turns over better when casting a fly.  It makes a little  bit of sense for fly fishing (I don't like them), but it makes zero sense for casting plugs with spinning gear.

IMHO, there is this thing where folk make out GTs to be some sort of mythical super fish requiring super-sized tackle.  GTs are a great gamefish, and they do get large, but they are not exceptionally strong for a jack species.  The 10 to 50 lbers that they are catching on poppers in this video are easily managed with 30 lb leaders when reef abrasion is not an issue.   When abrasion is an issue, line diameter is your friend, so better off with a single thicker leader than a twisted  multistrand leader of equivalent combined diameter. No twisted leader, no need for a loop to loop connection.

-J

[boon]

One issue for any loop-to-loop connection is that it needs to equalise nicely. In the video you can clearly see one side of the double is looser than the other. Not a fan.

[Keta]

It is easy to equalize the legs before tightening the knot with a normal catspaw.

[mbg60]

This is essentially a loop to loop system where a loop to loop system is at a disadvantage (casting).  The "cat's paw" helps flatten the loop for casting, but the better answer is not to use a loop to loop.  A few extra loops can hep spread out the compressive load across the braid strands.  It can also help if the braid can dig into the loop material on the other side, but that will not be an issue here.

As far as I know, twisted step down mono leaders came from the fly fishing side as a a way to make a leader that turns over better when casting a fly.  It makes a little  bit of sense for fly fishing (I don't like them), but it makes zero sense for casting plugs with spinning gear.

IMHO, there is this thing where folk make out GTs to be some sort of mythical super fish requiring super-sized tackle.  GTs are a great gamefish, and they do get large, but they are not exceptionally strong for a jack species.  The 10 to 50 lbers that they are catching on poppers in this video are easily managed with 30 lb leaders when reef abrasion is not an issue.   When abrasion is an issue, line diameter is your friend, so better off with a single thicker leader than a twisted  multistrand leader of equivalent combined diameter. No twisted leader, no need for a loop to loop connection.

-J

Here in Hawaii and in other areas of the world where we catch GT plugging off the shore from low cliff, reefy areas a lot of people use braided line connected to heavy Fluorocarbon leaders using a FG knot.  For myself, I am a fan of hollow core connected to wind on leaders with LTL connection,  We need casting distance and these set ups provide us with just that plus the abrasion resistance required for these GT. Twisted leaders not used here too often, if at all, to my knowledge.
As far as GT are concerned, they are the strongest fish from shore here in the Pacific (except for bonefish and sharks) and will keep battling until they are completely spent of all energy.  GT will push both the angler and their gear to their limits.

[jurelometer]

[
Here in Hawaii and in other areas of the world where we catch GT plugging off the shore from low cliff, reefy areas a lot of people use braided line connected to heavy Fluorocarbon leaders using a FG knot.  For myself, I am a fan of hollow core connected to wind on leaders with LTL connection,  We need casting distance and these set ups provide us with just that plus the abrasion resistance required for these GT. Twisted leaders not used here too often, if at all, to my knowledge.

Interesting, a loop to loop is not going to cast through the guides as well as an FG or Alberto. I  think that for longer leaders, I want a low profile knot, and if I want a really long leader that is going to be on my spool whine starting the cast, I want something int the FG style of knots that can be wound onto the spool and still cast with a low risk of contributing to a backlash.
[/quote]

As far as GT are concerned, they are the strongest fish from shore here in the Pacific (except for bonefish and sharks) and will keep battling until they are completely spent of all energy.  GT will push both the angler and their gear to their limits.

I have heard this, but this has not been my experience, nor from guides that I have fished with that target GTs regularly.  If you don't have enough drag to stop them, they will keep going.  But if you are able to stop them from taking line, they sort of give up for awhile. Compare this to something like a golden trevally.  Once a goldie can't take any more line it will keep swimming and changing directions.

I have yet to see anyone driving around with a golden trevally sticker on their pickup.  Plenty of GT stickers... The GT is  a great gamefish.  I just think that it is oversold a bit. But I respect that folk can have their own opinions on this subject.

I am not into the whole pound for pound best fighting/strongest fish debate.  What are the criteria, and how do you weight them?

Some species are built for short powerful bursts, like groupers, others for speed  and endurance (tunas), or strength and endurance (many sharks), or acceleration (bonefish).  And so on.  One species cannot be built to have all of these attributes.

I like them all in their own way.  But I even enjoy seeing a trumpetfish throw into reverse, so that may also disqualify me from the debate

-J

[mbg60]

In my experience the L2L connection is no problem going through the guides.  I'm using an Aero Technium with 40lb Toro Tamer hollow to a 60lb wind on leader. Casts through size 8 guides without issues. 5-7 oz bank sinkers.

In my experiences the Golden Trevally are not as fast or strong as GT. I have caught a few of the Golden Variety and they are no match for an equal sized GT.

[Keta]

Interesting, a loop to loop is not going to cast through the guides as well as an FG or Alberto.

I don't know how you do L2L connections but in the real world they are a very low profile connection that passes smoothly through guides with no tag end to catch.

[jurelometer]

Interesting, a loop to loop is not going to cast through the guides as well as an FG or Alberto.

I don't know how you do L2L connections but in the real world they are a very low profile connection that passes smoothly through guides with no tag end to catch.

The world is a big place.

 If you put a loop in the mono leader (per the video in the first post), the L2L will be bulky.

Agree that if you  use hollow braid  mainline and serve some hollow braid on the leaders, you can splice knotless loops that don't have to be very long or bulky. Not as slim  to cast as an FG , but not bad at all.

Braid stuffing,  serving and splicing is a bit of a production. I  just tie a low profile knot and do  not have to pre-make served wind-on leaders, or require hollow mainline.  I guess that there are situations where wind-ons make more sense, especially when the mono leader gets really large in diameter.   More in the reply below.

In my experience the L2L connection is no problem going through the guides.  I'm using an Aero Technium with 40lb Toro Tamer hollow to a 60lb wind on leader. Casts through size 8 guides without issues. 5-7 oz bank sinkers.

Nice Goldie.  And good to see some different perspectives.

Good idea to use a wind on leader. That gets rid of the worst of the two knots and loops, assuming that the loop on the end of your leader is a spliced/served chunk of hollow braid. And if you are splicing the loop in the hollow braid mainline, you get rid of that  knot as well well.  Haven't cast hollow braid myself. It seems to get mixed reviews.  Probably less of an issue with spinning gear. But yeah, if you go through the work to have a knotless loop to loop, you won't have problems with knots.

If you are using knots:  Probably worth pointing out a few things here.  First of all you are using a spinning reel with a very large payload (5-7 oz of lead plus bait).  That will yank everything through the guides and you don't need to worry about backlashes from the doubled line and knots on the revolving spool of a conventional reel.

The other issue that I forgot to mention is landing the fish.  If you get a leader knot  in the guides and the fish takes off again, the knot is much more likely to catch on the guides when the rod is bent.  This is more of an issue with a bendy rod on a boat, and less from shore you can almost always immediately point the tip at the fish.

Don't doubt that your method works well for your situation. And it is a better solution than  one in the video.    I am more a of a minimalist myself.

In my experiences the Golden Trevally are not as fast or strong as GT. I have caught a few of the Golden Variety and they are no match for an equal sized GT.

I have caught both of about the same size on the same day on the same tackle.  Agree that GTs are sprinters, and if your drag is not set pretty high, you can spend a lot of time winding one in after it eventually stops.  At higher drag settings, it takes me longer to land a Goldie of the same size.

I have caught almost all of my GT and Goldies from a boat, the bulk of them on a fly rod, the rest on conventional (revolving spool). Very few from shore or wading.

An interesting factoid about big GTs on the flats from a boat:  they are easily frightened when not actively crashing bait.  I was taught to make long casts with slim flies, and to land the fly in sight, but not too close to fish.  A short window of time and you will probably only get a single shot at them. Heart pounding stuff.

-J

[MexicanGulf]

I think the best solution is a PR Knot connection or a GT Knot