don't oil line roller bearings because...?

[mike1010]

For recent spinners, at least the Stradic lines and probably others, Shimano recommends against lubing line roller bearings.  What is the magic that suggests that?  Are the bearings some version of mag-sealed?  Trying to cut through the high and deep Shimano market-speak to find substance didn't yield anything.  Thanks.

--Mike

[ReelClean]

Shimano have had a few marketing terms for their bearings (like ARB: Always/Already Rusting Bearing) but I haven't heard of no lube.  Cheaper Daiwa now have some sort of polymer bush bearing that is less likely to fall apart and leave the outer race stuck in the LR, but it gets same treatment as below.  Even the Daiwa Magoil bearings are a PITA because they are invariably 1mm thicker than standard, and years ago their 5x9x4 for the Saltiga spinners were $50+ea.  A 5x9x3 with a 1mm SS shim works just fine.  I hit the brgs with CorrosionX, Superlube ISO68, and pack the LR housing with synth grease as well.  Less work for me next time trying to get it out!

[oc1]

You can't prevent the bearing from getting wet. The spinning bearing will whip the oil and water into mayonnaise.  The more you whip the thicker it gets.  Water alone will provide some lubrication.

[Midway Tommy]

Has nothing to do with Shimano, but I have always been against oiling or greasing spinning reel line roller bushings or bearings. I've always felt it did more harm than good. I add a little Armor All instead as it doesn't draw dust & dirt like oils or grease do.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Has nothing to do with Shimano, but I have always been against oiling or greasing spinning reel line roller bushings or bearings. I've always felt it did more harm than good. I add a little Armor All instead as it doesn't draw dust & dirt like oils or grease do.

interesting idea. I wouldn't put armor all on any surfaces in my car if you paid me to. But that sounds like an interesting use.

[Gfish]

Based on experience in SW, you would have to disassemble and flush the line-roller assembly on an older Stratic after each trip, if no lube. There's (too) many parts to deal with. Can't exactly remember, but there's 2-3 bits that can corrode. Don't know about the newer ones, maybe they upgraded parts because of earlier common issues.

[Midway Tommy]

Has nothing to do with Shimano, but I have always been against oiling or greasing spinning reel line roller bushings or bearings. I've always felt it did more harm than good. I add a little Armor All instead as it doesn't draw dust & dirt like oils or grease do.

interesting idea. I wouldn't put armor all on any surfaces in my car if you paid me to. But that sounds like an interesting use.

I also use it in key lock tumblers rather than graphite (much cleaner), cabinet drawer slides, window slide tracks, sliding patio doors, closet bifold & bypass doors, exterior door weatherstrip, etc. It works much better & lasts longer, at least for me anyway, than wax type products.

[jurelometer]

My theory  on the no-maintenance recommendation:

Looks to me like that line roller on the Stradic is simply a ball bearing with a groove cut on the the outside of the outer race, turning two parts into one (and making it impossible to replace a failed bearing with a standard non-OEM part). This design allows for a larger bearing with larger balls, which I think should also be a bit better in terms of handling load (not sure if this is necessary), and behaving a bit better if some corrosion occurs  (a very small bearing is going to seize up sooner).

It also looks like the bearing has full seals that will tend to hold lubricants in, but also interferes little bit with rolling resistance. These seals are often removable on normal third party sealed ball bearings, as it is difficult to lubricate them otherwise.

Perhaps Shimano has decided that the roller performs best with whatever lubricant they already have in there, and will last the useful lifetime of the reel  (whatever thst is for a Stradic) without further maintenance. Plus some idjit customers diving in and damaging the (non-removable?) seals to pump the bearing full of WD-40 is going to shorten the life, so easiest to tell us to leave it alone.

On Armor All as a bearing lubricant: 

I am not a big fan of using products so far away from their intended purposes.

The Armor All formula has changed over the last couple of decades to remove VOCs and other nasties, so it depends on how old your bottle is. The newer stuff is some sort of water based silicone treatment with some sort of sacrificial UV protectant added in.  Same basic product as 303, or many others in the category, but there are probably variations in the formulation.  I am going to assume that we are discussing these more recent formulations.

Perhaps after the water evaporates, the residue behaves like a light silicone oil, which is not a terrible choice for a bearing lubricant on a spinning reel line roller, especially with open bearings.  I would be hesitant to squirt it into a sealed ball bearing, as if there is some salt residue inside, the water would dissolve the salt, accelerating the corrosion process. Plus once you get silicone in, it is hard to clean it out if you change your mind- you need to use soaps instead of solvents.

If I felt compelled to ignore advice to not lubricate the roller, I would just try a drop of thin film lubricant/corrosion inhibitor like our local long time favorite TSI 321.

My $0.02,

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

Maybe they're just using a concave bearing like one would use for a yoyo? Sure would eliminate a few parts. If not, maybe we should consider it?

[alantani]

i'd vote for oil.....

[Gfish]

If I designed a line roller, I'd first think; bushing, no ball bearing(s). Something with single screw removal that wouldn't strip easily. Remove, rinse, lube if you wanna. I always thought the M.G. stationary tungsten carbide line "guides" were a good idea: just rotate or replace if a groove developed. Chances are, you can catch it before the line starts to fray.
It' no biggie to me to clean and lube a handle knob, IF it's removable and there's no stupid ball bearings to deal with.

[jurelometer]

I am with Alan.   If it is actually a ball bearing on the inside, I'm keeping that puppy lubricated.

Maybe they're just using a concave bearing like one would use for a yoyo? Sure would eliminate a few parts. If not, maybe we should consider it?

Exactly. But the groove shape does not look the same as a yo-yo bearing.  Plus, I doubt that a yoyo bearing is going to have the right dimensions and be made out of 440c stainless.

Lots of Stradic models out there, but here are a couple of the line rollers.  Looks to me like the very outer part might be press fit on a "normal" bearing.

[foakes]

I always put a drop of oil under the line roller/guide.

I have seen too many line guides either frozen or corroded onto the bail wire.

Even if a line roller is not a roller —- just stationary —- it is still a good idea, at least for me and the clients reels.

A reel gets used, then stored for a week, 2 weeks, 2 years, or 10 years.  Just good preventive maintenance.

A lot of the things that we read about reels are not written by the reel techs or anglers out in real world fishing conditions.  Many instructions are basically "dumbed down" for easier warranty issues, ability to market that a reel has a lot of bearings (which are needful on most graphite reels for mechanical support), and the marketing department.

For me, common sense dictates a little oil or grease in spots that I know will benefit.

Best, Fred

[Midway Tommy]

Just to clarify, my Armor All jug is well over 25 years old & has always been kept in a conditioned area. I have noticed, though, that a bottle I purchased a couple of years ago seemed a little watery. It sat in an unheated building through a couple of winters, froze and is more or less a bottle of gook now. Everything separated & you can't shake it enough to get it to gain a decent consistency. Never thought about the fact that they probably changed the formula.

On different note, none of the reels I own or use have a ball bearing at the line roller. I can see where a ball bearing could become a real PITA there, especially where SW is prevalent. I prefer the bushing type line roller bearing, they seem to be much easier to maintain.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I really think concave bearings might be something worth considering as a line roller.