Drag on 6/0 Experiment

[suitekids]

Tell me what you guys think of this, I know the drag order, so please don't go there with this experiment. In brief, I bought a set of new HT100 drags and washers for my 6/0, I also bought a complete set from the lovely Dawn, her carbontex drag washers are alot thinner than the HT100 set, she also sent me 6 of them 5+1 under the gear and the SS washers aswell, I measured all of the components for thickness of both sets, the results were the eared washers from penn are thinner than Dawn's, Dawn's keyed washers are thinner than Penn's. The combination of the 2 along with the carbontex washers, I was able to fit 6 carbontex washers, 3 Penn eared washers, and 3 Carbontex keyed washers in my Accurate 6/0 main gear, Alan had sent me a 6-114 HT100 for under the gear for a total of 7 carbon fiber washers with no alterations at all, everything fell perfectly into place. In order to make it all happen the order was as follows: 1 carbontex, 1 Penn eared, 1 carbontex, 1 carbontex keyed, 1 carbontex, 1 Penn eared, 1 carbontex, 1 carbontex keyed, 1 carbontex, 1 Penn eared, 1 carbontex, 1 carbontex keyed. The Accurate gear by the way has the grooves for the eared washers machined all the way down to the bottom of the gear seat and into that a little aswell, where the Penn's gears groove stops a little short of the seat, that makes you start the first metal washer as a keyed one to get above the short groove at the seat.  I wonder how many lbs. the drag pack is now? Any ideas? This should work without issue I would imagine, comments welcome pro and con!!!!!!! Dan

[Alto Mare]

Dan, you mentioned that you know your drag order and for us not to go there. Unfortunately,drag order has everything to do with it. Your first carbontex washer and  eared washer are  not adding anything to the drags, they're acting more as a spacer. The eared washers moves with the main gear, not having a keyed washer under it becomes useless.

[suitekids]

I might see it that way, I have 3 connected to the gear and 3 connected the shaft with a carbon washer in between each, if the first one is connected what's the difference, is it because the first isn't turning on the shaft instead of the gear?? I guess the first carbon washer isn't turning? HMMMMM I think I sees it now, the 1st is locked in by the eared, I was trying to get an extra in there, oh well, this is why we give it a shot, have to get even thinner carbontex to make it a full seven to make it 4keyed and 3 eared

[Alto Mare]

The main gear, the first carbontex and the first eared  metal washer become one unit and spinn as a unit....no drag whatsoever. You will need a keyed washer first to activate drag.

[suitekids]

yes, I see it now buddy, I modified the reply, I guess .5 mm would work, need the extra keyed to start with so it also ends up with the keyed at the end, I will get them this weel and make a jig to cut the outside down, and open the insides, I'll take pictures again, that's Mister Dumas not Mister Dumbass....lol

[Alto Mare]

All questions are welcomed here. Good or bad questions will have the same impact on teaching us . Good try buddy, don't give up.

[George4741]

Dan,
Yes, a 1+7 drag stack is possible.  I've done it.
 
On my 114H I used Smoothdrag's #59 carbontex @ 0.5 mm thickness and reduced the diameter, because their other 0.5 mm offerings are too small in diameter.  I also used stock Penn metal washers.  I damaged some of the carbontex washers while improperly grinding them, but my next set will turn out perfect.

I don't know how much drag is possible on this reel and I won't test it to destruction, either.  It was an exercise to see if a 1+7 drag is possible.  Also, I get a little more drag with less effort on the star.  Finally, I get a very smooth drag.    

BTW I also did a 1+7 drag stack in my 113H several months ago.
George

[Alto Mare]

I didn't try the 1+7 yet, but have cut some other washers in the past. These tools have done the job  for me:

The leather hole punch do the job nicely, I purchased the set on ebay for $15 a while back...best money I ever spent.
The silver cutters are worthless when you receive them, but with a little effort you could sharpen the cutting tip on a wheel, they will also work nicely afterwards. The cost on those was $12 shipped.
I'm liking the 1+7, I will give it a try on my 114 WEX, when I get a chance. I have ss gears in that reel, but they're Penn's 2.8:1. If the thin carbontex don't shred under load, I'm thinking close to 50lb on that reel. The way I have it set up, I believe that it could handle it.
Me and Bryan have been going back and forth on this for over a year now. Bryan wanted to make the metal washers thinner and I didn't think that it was a good idea, we also talked about thinner carbontex washers and we also thought that they might not hold up under that much pressure.
George was kind enough to bring them to the table. Now we have a chance to try them out.
If this works out and the accurate gears will be available to us, this reel will be hard to beat.

[Keta]

How thick are the stock metal washers?  I have some .059 (1.5mm) and .045 (1.17mm) material I'm cutting 349H washers out of and if I had one each of the 6/0 washers I can draw them up and have thin ones cut.  I have some thiner material for Daiwa 50 washers but I think it will be too thin for the 114H.

   
When grinding carbon fiber drag washers I use a old bridge, gear sleeve, spacers and keyed washers to keep things from going bad, next time I'll try to remember I own a camera.  If I have to modify the ID I use a Dremel and eared washers.

[Alto Mare]

Lee, at the moment we have everything we need, I was trying to find an easier way for the guys to cut the carbontex. I've been using the leather punch cutters, one hit with a hammer on a piece of wood and you'll get a nice clean cut.
George was able to find a way to gety 1+7 stack, all we need now is to test  and see if the .5mm carbontex washers can handle around 50lb of pressure. If this works outand we gety a lot of interest,  I'm sure  Dawn would set up the cutters.

[Keta]

I think glueing them to the keyed washers might work.

[Alto Mare]

You might have something there Lee, but we need to test them as George showed us first. I'm thinking that they might be ok, but we need to get Dawn to cut them for us. We might be loosening up the thread when grinding to shape the washers.

[George4741]

Sal, those leather hole punch cutters look promising. 

I enlarged the holes in the carbontex by sandwiching them between two old eared washers and dremeling them out.  Reducing the outer diameter is where I got into trouble.  I saw an example somewhere how the carbon fiber washers are slid on a bolt or arbor and the outer edges are pressed against a spinning grinder, thereby reducing the diameter.  The hole became enlarged while spinning on the arbor and slightly shredded the carbontex.  Anyway, that is where I got into trouble and damaged some of the carbontex.  I finished them up similar to the way Lee describes below.

When grinding carbon fiber drag washers I use a old bridge, gear sleeve, spacers and keyed washers to keep things from going bad, next time I'll try to remember I own a camera.  If I have to modify the ID I use a Dremel and eared washers.

Lee, my eared washers are 1.19mm and keyed washers are 1.72mm thick.

Dan, what size carbontex washers are you using in your mod?  How are you modifying them, if needed?

George

[George4741]

I'm liking the 1+7, I will give it a try on my 114 WEX, when I get a chance. I have ss gears in that reel, but they're Penn's 2.8:1. If the thin carbontex don't shred under load, I'm thinking close to 50lb on that reel. The way I have it set up, I believe that it could handle it.

If this works out and the accurate gears will be available to us, this reel will be hard to beat.

Imagine 50lb drag on a 114H!   That reel and spectra could make using the larger Senators almost pointless.  Relax, guys.  I said "almost".

[Bryan Young]

Lee,

I have 6/0 washers for you. I am waiting for the other washers to come in and was planning to send them up to you at once. If you want them sooner, let me know. I personally would like the same thickness for the metal drag washers to equalize the thermal dynamics of each metal washer.

Bryan