113(Black)YTS or Grouper Special?

[Alto Mare]

Lots of guys buy and sell on eBay, I'm one of them and there are many from this site.

[RowdyW]

I do too but that wasn't the point of that statment. 

[Ron Jones]

Doh!

I forgot the yoke. To be honest, I see no reason to NOT double dog every Penn. Simultaneous engagement just makes sense to me on a reel like this that will crank large fish. No reason not to put your best foot forward.

I wasn't complaining about the Ebay sell, I think it's cool to see this idea grow. I envision the grouper special someday being identified as an inexpensive way to get into a world class reel and credit given to George. The lugs and beauty rings of the  113 and the Newell clamp really do make this worth it over a stock 66.

Ron

[Alto Mare]

I do too but that wasn't the point of that statment. 

I understand, I just wanted to mention that there isn't anything wrong with it.
I'm sure we will see some double dog reels all over ebay soon.
I buy and sell on ebay, but I've never directed anyone here to my stuff, I respect the boss's wishes of not advertising and I'm glad everyone else is doing the same.
Sal

[George4741]

Ron,
I like your criteria for a Grouper Special.  I'd better get to work on mine and add the stainless double dogs, or I'll be lagging behind you guys.   Last time I checked, Berinson's had the Newell foot.  I doubt if I was the first one to narrow a 113.  Rudy may have done it before me and I'll bet others did it before Penn came along with the mighty 113H.

About the ebayers, I also don't mind.  If what we do breathes new life and interest in the old Penns, it is OK with me.   

[Ron Jones]

I've got the Berinson's foot up an another tab. The only reason it isn't mine is because my list is LOOONG!!!!, much longer than the depth of my reel pot of gold. I will get it soon.

Ron

[George4741]

Ron,
I re-read one of your recent posts.  Are you eliminating the top post on one of your 113's?  If so, let us know how it goes, and, PICTURES PLEASE!

[Ron Jones]

Yes,

I'm working with a machinist in the shipyard, the current plan is to thread the lug for a bushing that will be the correct thread for the post screw, and then shortening the screw. This will give me lugs, no open holes and an open top. I figure that if a 66 works with out a top post then a Senator will to.

I have opened a photobucket account, but I am horrible about taking pictures. I need to work on that because I have learned so much from all your pictures and it would only be fair for me to pay back. When I get all the parts together I'll do a tutorial.

Ron

[RowdyW]

Ron, if you eliminate the top post you also have 2 less posts front & rear. The only way to reinforce it would be to use a Tiburon topless frame. You said you wanted to strengthen it with double dogs but I think you are weakening it omitting the top bar. When Grouper fishing is casting important? We still have to figure out how to get an aluminum spool in it if we want a decent casting reel. Well back to the drawing boards.............  Don't forget a 66 does not have top lugs either. I think that if you run without a top bar you should also leave the lugs off also., then your back to a 66 with a stronger stand or a weaker 113.  Just my opinion.    Rudy

[Ron Jones]

Rudy,

I have thought about everything you said in advance. The first thing I did was ensure that the top bar of the 66 and the top bar of the 113 are in the same place, they are. I understand that I'm losing bars on the 66, but I'm losing the bottom bars and I think the stronger stand will make up the difference. I am building a test stand that will measure deflection under drag. I don't think the top bar is going to be a deal breaker. A bolted assembly is not all that weaker than a solid assembly, at least that's what the engineers that design mods for submarines tell me, I'll figure it out when I can measure actual deflection. If I'm wrong I'll use the Senator rings, if I'm right I'll have an open top Grouper special, which will be cool. I have cast my fully Taniized 113 with a bronze spool and I get great distance from it so I think the effort is worth it.

Again, we won't know until we try! Welcome to the wonderful world of experimentation.

Thanks,
Ron

[RowdyW]

Ron, I,m not in a dispute with you. Going back to the post from SeaDawg he named it "Grouper Special" with s/s sleeve, s/s posts, & chrome 1 piece 66 spool. So any other modifications you make doesn't mean that your way is the only way to build one. My idea of building one of these is to build an old school narrow 113 4/0 as strong as possible & still look custom. I don't know how big the Grouper are where you are but here in S. Florida they can get as big as a 18 wheeler fuel tank. If one of those gets ahold of your line you will quickly find out your reel is not a special" Grouper Special"no matter what H D parts you add. I'll just call mine a 113 4/0 N 2.0 or 2.3 with the optional gearing. If I'm out for real Grouper the minimum I use is my 114h with a narrow Accurate frame, a minimum of 80# line, & a 130# cable leader and a fully locked down drag. Thats a minimum for REAL Grouper. When they head for home you had better have an anchor in your back pocket till you can get them up 30 or 40 feet.        Rudy

[Ron Jones]

I've been pictures of those grouper. Looks like fun work regardless of the gear. The last thing I want to start doing is setting policy. I just want to find out how important the top post is.

Ron

[RowdyW]

Ron, I don't think a top post is important until you hook up a harness & the rod tries to twist. The engineers at Penn thought so too. Thats why they added the top bar to the 113 & left it off the long beach. After market topless frames have a reinforcing bar on each side to partially make up for it. What will you use for a full circle reinforcing bar? Maybe aluminum side plates would make the top of the plates stiffer & partially make up for the missing top bar. Now we have to figure out how to adapt a aluminum side plate or a thick outer ring to a 113.   Rudy

[George4741]

Did you know that the actual 113 ratio is 1.883 not 2.0 & the L B ratio is2.285 ?  Thats a gain of .402. I don't think any more can be done as there is not enough main gear clearance.

That isn't true in my 113.  The main gear has 32 teeth and the pinion has 16.  This makes mine a true 1:2.0 ratio.

[Ron Jones]

Well,

Just got done moving to even further LeeWard Oahu (Miili from Kapolei), so I haven't been around much. Like I said I'll test the twist of the frame under load and see if the top bar is necessary. Right now all my reels are in about 15 different boxes and reassembling the jig saw puzzle will be fun. That of course can't start until the honey-do list is complete and the storage shed attached to the house looks more like a garage.

Ron