baja or 6/o for grouper diging

[alantani]

thanks, steve!

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=354.0

[Alto Mare]

Great discussion, not much for me to add except perhaps to reiterate there is a big difference between Baja Grouper and Florida grouper, with Florida Goliath Grouper being something else again [most like CA black seabass before the moratorium].
For Florida grouper, the Baja Special is definitely the way to go.
For Baja grouper at "the Ridge" aboard an LR boat, or at "the Midriff Islands" aboard a panga, the "old school" way to go was 100-pound mono with a 6/0, but 80-90 percent [often 100!] of those were losing battles.
The old black-sideplate Senators with their very low IPT rate still could not compensate for a [relative] lack of drag.
With modern 2-speed reels and 130-pound line, the "losing" percentage is still above 50-percent, but at least you've got a fighting chance.

[conchydong]

thanks, steve!

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=354.0

It really is great to have Steve (Tuna North) on here as he is a wealth of knowledge regarding Penn reels and California fishing history. Very interesting stuff.

[Alto Mare]

Great discussion, not much for me to add except perhaps to reiterate there is a big difference between Baja Grouper and Florida grouper, with Florida Goliath Grouper being something else again [most like CA black seabass before the moratorium].
For Florida grouper, the Baja Special is definitely the way to go.
For Baja grouper at "the Ridge" aboard an LR boat, or at "the Midriff Islands" aboard a panga, the "old school" way to go was 100-pound mono with a 6/0, but 80-90 percent [often 100!] of those were losing battles.
The old black-sideplate Senators with their very low IPT rate still could not compensate for a [relative] lack of drag.
With modern 2-speed reels and 130-pound line, the "losing" percentage is still above 50-percent, but at least you've got a fighting chance.

Hello Steve, it's always  nice to see you here.
Although I always trust your judgment, I'm a little skeptical on this one .
I've been checking out the Baja's parts, but have not fished the reel yet, I just don't see how it could match up to the 114H and in your statement, better.
Yes, I get it that the Baja is a great reel, but for pulling monsters from the deep when compared with the 114H, I'm not so sure.
Keep in mind, we're not talking a standard stock 114h here, most of us have some goodies in those.
This is one of those things that I will need to see with my own eyes.
All the best.
Sal

[basto]

For fish this size, I would think high drag capability would be as important as gear strength. A 2 speed, twin drag comes to mind.

[Jimmer]

To hell with salmon, I gotta head south and fish some grouper!

[Westii]

I think we may be getting off the topic of the original question here and into a "mine's better than your's" debate.  I'm not knocking anyone's 114's as I'm sure that those would have advantages over a Baja Special in certain applications.  However, as Steve and others have noted in this thread, Florida grouper (red, gag, black, etc.) fishing is generally does not involve "pulling monsters from the deep".  The Baja Special is more than capable of this type of fishing in a package size much smaller than a 114.  I recall some pictures posted in a Shimano TLD star post on this site of a guy with a quality Florida gag grouper taken on a 20/40 TLD star with a Kolekar grip that he said worked great.  I've caught plenty of nice Florida and Alabama grouper with my TLD 15/30 too.   

[Alto Mare]

I think we may be getting off the topic of the original question here and into a "mine's better than your's" debate.  I'm not knocking anyone's 114's as I'm sure that those would have advantages over a Baja Special in certain applications.  However, as Steve and others have noted in this thread, Florida grouper (red, gag, black, etc.) fishing is generally does not involve "pulling monsters from the deep".  The Baja Special is more than capable of this type of fishing in a package size much smaller than a 114.  I recall some pictures posted in a Shimano TLD star post on this site of a guy with a quality Florida gag grouper taken on a 20/40 TLD star with a Kolekar grip that he said worked great.  I've caught plenty of nice Florida and Alabama grouper with my TLD 15/30 too.   

I don't believe that anyone has gone off track on this topic, I think it is all relevant to the subject matter "Baja or 6/0 for grouper diging".
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I for one believe that a 6/0 is a much better reel for this particular type of fishing.
Sal

[zward]

Had to chime in on this one. Leaving tomorrow for southwest FL for grouper/snapper around the dry tortugas. I had started a thread awhile back about a rod/reel outfit specifically for Goliath grouper aka Jewfish, and got a lot of good input and wound up with two Makaira 20's on 40-100lb roller rods. These outfits are great for big fish, but as others have said sometimes you hook one that's just to big or thats got to much cover to dive in to get up. Lately if we're serious about getting one to the boat, I tie both of the Makaira's to one 400lb barrel swivel, than 6-8ft of 275lb stainless cable, and let two guys battle the same fish, usually works but sometimes there's to much cover for'em. On the other end of things this last trip I brought up a 175lb'er with a Penn 330GT2 and 30-50lb ugly stick, I just happened to hook him at the right time/right spot and had him at the surface in 3mins.

As far as all around grouper reels, the Makaira 20's are to heavy/bulky to use for long periods, they only come out for goliaths or jumbo black grouper. I currently have 2 Penn Baja specials, 2 Saltist 50's, 2 Cedros 12 star drags and a 330 or so in the lineup. Baja special is hands down my go to, IMO w/100lb braid its THE perfect grouper reel. That said  the only other inkling i have is for a makaira 15  ;  

[SoCalAngler]

I think we may be getting off the topic of the original question here and into a "mine's better than your's" debate.  I'm not knocking anyone's 114's as I'm sure that those would have advantages over a Baja Special in certain applications.  However, as Steve and others have noted in this thread, Florida grouper (red, gag, black, etc.) fishing is generally does not involve "pulling monsters from the deep".  The Baja Special is more than capable of this type of fishing in a package size much smaller than a 114.  I recall some pictures posted in a Shimano TLD star post on this site of a guy with a quality Florida gag grouper taken on a 20/40 TLD star with a Kolekar grip that he said worked great.  I've caught plenty of nice Florida and Alabama grouper with my TLD 15/30 too.   

I don't believe that anyone has gone off track on this topic, I think it is all relevant to the subject matter "Baja or 6/0 for grouper diging".
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I for one believe that a 6/0 is a much better reel for this particular type of fishing.
Sal

Sal,
How often have you fished with a Baja Special? I am not trying to put you on the spot but this thread is about a 6/0 vs a 113HN. It is not about a beefed up 6/0 IMO or that would of been asked. It seems to me to be about two stock, strait out of the box reels. Maybe if others read why you think a standard Penn 6/0 vs a 113HN is a better match for fishing grouper we would be all ears. As you know compairing a stock 6/0 vs a hotrodded one is a apples to oranges match up. I know you have a good knowlege of Penn reels and the info you share is much appreciated by me, and others I suspect and I thank you for sharing it with me.

[Alto Mare]

Hello SoCalAngler, no I have not fished the Baja Special, but have taken one apart. You made a good point, something that I should have paid more attention to, this is about two reels out of the box. Thanks for setting me straight. Sorry guys!....happy fishing!
Sal

[zward]

I just couldn't get myself to lug around a 6/0 all day for grouper, if I'm doing that I'd rather opt for one of the gold lever drags. The one thing with bigger reels is even if they have more stopping power, they can be clumsy, and when you're really trying to put the wood to a big grouper, it's not always the best. A baja special on a 6ft acid wrapped XH seeker Hercules is my ultimate grouper killer, if I can't pull a grouper with that odds are there isn't a rod/reel out there that would.

Tight lines!
Zane

[shellbank99]

Man I face this fishery ever year and I love it. I fish out of Panama City and Destin for the big Gags every season, I also tear into the big Snapper. My goto rig is the Baja special with a penn slammer 20-50 class rod. I also fish 2 113h with tib narrow kits, accurate gears and stainless shaft. And plenty of Cals on fresh drags every year. I don't know what anyone has told u guys but the big boys are not always jewfish. I have pulled some good grouper  off public wrecks, funny thing is when u do win the battle with one of these toads they usually come up with multiple hooks in their mouth. I caught one last year that had 3 hooks and was towing a clock weight also. Probably 16 ounces worth. Anyway, I have a 114h and I have thought long and hard about putting the money into a convert if I could find some 3.25 accurate gears for it. Sounds like Sal may know something I don't, my biggest problem is getting the big fish the first 10 feet before they break me off or pull me out the boat. I use 100lb braid with 80lb mono leader and about 6 to 8 ounces of weight depending on current. The big fish ratio runs about 35 percent success, it can test your patience.  What kind of drag numbers can u get on a 6/0 vs a pimped 113h or a baja? 
Thanks and Good Hunting
Troy

[George4741]

What kind of drag numbers can u get on a 6/0 vs a pimped 113h or a baja? 

I installed 1+7 drag stacks in my 114 and 114H and they benched at 36 and 43 lbs, respectively.  That is a straight pull on my digital scale.  I haven't tested them on a fish. 

If you start exceeding Penn's recommended maximum drag, then you should beef up your 6/0 with a full metal frame, ss gear sleeve, steel gears, and ss double dogs (I hope I'm not forgetting anything).  Otherwise, it won't last long.  No guarantees.

I've installed Accurate and Tiburon frames on mine, but haven't completed all of the other "tank" mods, yet.
  George

   

[George4741]

Troy,
In other words, a tanked 6/0 should easily pull 25-30 lb drag, which is 1/3 the breaking strength of your 80-100 lb line.

George