50's Vintage Penn 12/0 upgrades

[RockyMtnKurt]

     I have what appears to be a 50's vintage Penn 12/0: spool bushings, 3 piece spool, 5 piece asbestos drag washers, marlin on the left side. I intend to use this reel a maximum of 7-8 times per year primarily for shark off the beach or in a boat offshore. First, the drag and spool issues. Being a three piece spool, I intend to use a braided 80-100# line for the first 2/3rds of the spooling, then a mono topshot, probably 80# Momoi Hi-Catch Diamond. This I hope will help combat the spool spreading issue if I hook a really big one. Intimate to this is the drag resistance pressure and drag washer issue. This reel has an original 5 asbestos washer set up. I would like to switch to the carbontex washers. I do not want to go to high drag resistance, such as in the 50-60 ft lbs range, and I would like to stay in the 30-40 ft lbs range, which will help prevent spool spreading. Also, the consideration of heat build up under high load is an issue. I suspect doubling the metal washers thickness in the drag setup and getting the correct carbontex washer thicknesses to match the total stack thickness dimensions would be the way to go. The extra metal washer thickness should help dissipate the heat better, as well as the nature of the carbontex material.
     Secondly, noting the harness lugs. The thick lugs on the top center of the reel make sense for harness hook in. The thinner lugs on the front of the reel make no sense to me for rod bracing. It seems the rod bracing should be on the back side of the reel, not the front side, to resist line pressure and torque to the reel spool, or even better, lugs on the front and the back as with the newer reels. In order to get a back side lug configuration the inner metal rings and the plastic reel halves would need to be cut in/milled or newer inner metal rings may be available which already have the cut ins for front and rear lug configuration. This assumes these rings would fit the plastic reel halves. Also, going with thicker lugs would seem to make more sense than the thinner lug set up, assuming the reel sides are strong enough to hook to the rod in the first place. I have the ability and tools to alter the existing lug areas to accommodate large lugs at either the existing positions or the new positions on this reel. What I would like is opinions from the expertise of this forum to give me some additional guidance on these issues.

Thank you.

[alantani]

here is the parts list for the 12/0.  take a look and see what's available.  this will get you started,  it's a nice reel!

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn116L.aspx


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Makule]

Perhaps better to fill up more than 2/3 of the spool with braid because 80 lb mono on 1/3 of the spool will probably exert too much pressure on the spool.  Recall that the mono will be on the outer edge and put more pressure than if it were closer to the core.  I'd also use maybe 130 mono to try to reduce the stretch.  I'd try to keep the mono to maybe about 100 yards.  The most important thing about using a 3 piece spool is to always use the pumping technique and not try to winch the fish in under pressure.  The reel is not a winch.  It is a mechanism for holding line.

Using CF disks is a good idea.  You will get the same drag with less pressure on each disk so the heat buildup should be reduced.

The front harness lugs are made for holding the reel to the rod, because the top harness lugs are for attaching to a back or hip belt (harness).  You put more pressure with belt because you are pulling against the leverage of the rod (the rod length).  The rod is a lever working against you rather than for you.  The 14/0 and 16/0 reels have lugs on the front, top, and back.  Keep in mind that the reel was not meant to be held by a tiny reel seat only, but also with the bolt on clamp.

[Alto Mare]

The problem with that reel is that the parts are very limited, some impossible to find.
If you do find some, they're not cheap. All comes down to how much you want to go into it.
You should have steel gears, keep them greased and you'll be better off than brass gears.
I could probably help you out a little, but again it isn't cheap.
I could send you a new Chromed spool ( impossible to find ), not the three piece, but it would cost you $125. I could also send the right side plate for $45 and grind it for the second dog on me. You'll get way keeping the left side plate, you will have a bushing on the left and a bearing on the right...or change that as well. Shipping costs will also need to be added, the quote is what I paid for the parts.
Sal

[Makule]

Let's see:  $125 for a spool, $45 for one plate, nice piece of change for steel gears, maybe another $45 for the other plate, a bit more for bearings.  That comes to about $250 to $300 and you've got a "new" reel.  Isn't that about what a used, but very good condition, newer model (with aluminum spool and ball bearings) 12/0 would cost?

If it were me, I'd just buy a more modern 12/0 instead, but that's because it's only a tool in my view.  I do not attach any value to it for being vintage since I'm not a collector.  If you are a collector, don't change anything.

[Alto Mare]

A new 12/0 is a little over $300, Scotts has an aluminum spool for $75
https://www.mysticparts.com/29L-116.aspx
and a right side plate for $42, I remember them being more costly.
ts
https://www.mysticparts.com/1-116.aspx
That would be around $117 plus probably $10 for shipping.
As I stated above, you do not need to change the left side plate, I believe your reel will do just fine with a left side bushing and a right side bearing.
The good thing about this option, is that you could always go back to the original....if you wanted to.
You could also do as Makule suggested and grab a used one, but you'll never know what you'll be getting .
Sal

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[RockyMtnKurt]

     To all, thanks for the responses, it's helping me sort it out. I am going to swap the drag washers for sure. I am probably going to add back lugs, so the reel will have front and back rod bracing. True, the expense of purchasing substantial components will approach a new reel in price, so I will stick to the more economical aspects for now. For me, a big part of the appeal to this specific reel is the nostalgia of it's age. I have a really old Penn 049 I have used on large Lakers here in Colorado, and in the gulf, I used it for going after sharks a few weeks ago. There is nothing quite like using these old reels for these larger fish successfully. On this 12/0, I will take a closer look at the gears tonight when I go through them again to record more detailed specs. I was thinking they looked to be bronze when I looked at them originally, but they are probably brass, and they looked in good to great shape. Due to the spool and rotating assembly components, I am going to be more delicate and use finesse with this reel when I use it as compared to a new big game reel. Of course, hooking up with several hundred pounds of pissed off fish makes me wonder who exactly has a hold of whom! But that is why I keep a knife handy on my belt or my harness when hooked up. The 100yd  mono top shot is a good idea. I am probably going to add the 2nd dog as a force relief to the gear ratcheting. Other than that, I will hook up a line with this reel to an immovable object to see how it flexes/handles various levels of stress before hitting the ocean in a few weeks. I may even use an old Dacron line for the first hookup to see how it all reacts together!

[Shark Hunter]

I have three 12/0's and three 10/0's. I gave an average of about $150 each for the 10's and never more than $200 for the 12's. All have one piece spools and the bearings. If I were you, I would put that 12/0 on ebay and buy what you need for Shark Fishing.
I have learned my lesson on the older three piece spools, and they are not for me. I put the New carbon fiber 7 stack in them and I feel pretty confident they can handle a big shark. I am with Makule and it sounds like you are too. This reel is a tool, made for catching big fish. I bet you would be surprised what you could get for that old reel and get something a little more modern to handle the stress of a Big Shark and not worry about the spool. Just my 2 cents.
The reel on the left with the pink line is my favorite 12/0. I gave $ 200 for it. It has the one piece chrome over bronze spool and ball bearings, steel gears, 7 drag Carbon fiber stack. Of course the drags cost me extra, but this is a fishing machine! I have it spooled with straight 130 lb mono.

[RockyMtnKurt]

I wanted to give a brief update on what I've done to this point and how this reel has handled fish so far. I went to a 5 carbon washer drag stack, doubled the steel washers for extra heat dissipation and to maintain drag stack thickness specs (with one additional carbon washer in a non functional position on top of the stack to get to the required stack thickness), added one more dog for simultaneous dog action, added lugs to get 3 pairs of the thicker lugs about the reel, and put one carbon washer under the main gear. Testing the drag at full on the reel without a rod it is 28 1/2 lbs. I put on 800+ yds of 100lb test Marlin Braid Orange Spot Dacron hollow braid, and spliced on a 100 yd topshot of 80# Momoi Hi-Catch Diamond mono. I have been fishing in the Gulf this week and all shark hookups have not pushed this reel beyond anything mechanically the 3 piece spool can't handle. The largest hookup was on a 8-9' variety shark and it was no sweat for the reel. The drag has worked brilliantly and the reel has plenty of mustard to left to give. True no 11-12' foot class sharks yet and no hookups land based, only on the water. We have been simultaneously fly fishing for big tarpon with this 12/0 hooked on a bait drift, so big tarpon hookups are also not out of the question, as well as the shark hookups for this reel. I'll give it a go tomorrow pm one more time before heading home.

PS: My fishing partner figured out a fast and safe technique to remove the hooks from the big fish without getting hands near the sharks mouth, especially been helpful in the dark! I've been using 16/0 or 18/0 circle hooks with initial drag set at 10-12#, so some pressure is on the line at all times on hookup. In every single hookup the circle hook has been in the corner of the mouth. We prepare the hooks by cutting off or bending down the 2nd barb so only the hook point is sharp. This just aides in fast hook removal and we haven't lost any fish. Once the shark is leader close to the boat, we swing a 5/8" mooring rope around the leader slipping it down to the hook. Next, the mooring rope is pulled towards the shark's tail and the rod main line is pulled 180 degrees to the opposite the direction of the head. One or two sharp tugs and the fish is free. Safe and fast so far.

[Shark Hunter]

Sounds like you are on top of it Kurt!
I have the same issue with a vintage 12/0. I am just afraid that with all the setup and preparation, I don't want to have to worry about the spool when I get into a nice Tiger or Hammer.
I currently have three 12/0's, two with the one piece cast spool and another with the aluminum spool.
My 4th is the one with the three piece spool and counterbalanced handle. I think I am just going to go for it and get the bearing side plates and a new aluminum spool for it. I will still keep the nostalgia of all the original parts except for the spool and plates.
Any way you look at it, Catching a nice fish on these old reels is just that much more fun!

[RockyMtnKurt]

I hear you. But I think the drag setup is key. Of course, until I get a really large fish on this reel, I'll only use it off a boat so we can chase it pretty easily. This should allow me to see what pressure the reel will be subject to. I know there will be more wear and tear on the fish as we allow it to make a more runs with lower drag pressures than higher drag pressure might otherwise allow us to leader it sooner.  Well, time to hit the gulf for the rest of the day and see what we'll hook.

[Alto Mare]

Rocky, since you have the opportunity to hit the gulf often, how about you try 11 Carbon Fiber Washers stack and report back to us? I'm betting even though you've double the drags, the reel will run smoother and cooler....less effort to get to your max with the 5 stack.
I've done this test on smaller reels and those were my findings, but would love to hear how it goes on that big reel.
Sal

[Shark Hunter]

You have those gears turning in my Head again Sal!
Since my trip to the gulf is less than two weeks away, I think I'll slap that 11 stack in one of my 12's before I go. That 28 lbs is some pretty respectable drag in that old 5 stack 12 of Kurt's. I won't have the advantage of chasing a Shark around in a boat and I need all the help I can get.

[Bunnlevel Sharker]

Here's my thing with a 3 piece spool. I'm not worried about warping, I'm worried about the spool exploding into the side plates. It's happened before on large fish. If they made a wide one piece bronze spool for the 4/0w, I'd really be rolling once I get a 7 stack and aluminum frame. That's my main project this winter, is to complete my ray beater. If you've got the cash, jump on sals offer. If you ever respool the reel with a new spool completely, try 600yds of 130 braid to 130 mono. Can you say FISH KILLER!

[RockyMtnKurt]

I get the problem with the 3-piece spool splitting into the side plates. I still think an appropriate drag setting is the key with rod pumping and reeling in on off pressure technique. So, I tied the line from this spool to the bumper of my truck and reefed on it with full drag and rapidly walked out my topshot (100yds). The full drag setting on direct line pull is 28 1/2#. The mechanical stress on this reel was fine by everything I can see, measure and feel. No line biting into the reel wind of the Dacron, no outrageous stress to the spool I can measure in any dimension with my micrometer, and it feels really solid to hold with lots left over. On a roller guide rod with the rod held at about a 50 degree upward angle from horizontal, my rod adds about another 1 1/2# of drag (before corrosion x treating the rollers). On a rod with regular guides and no rollers, it appears to add over 4# of additional drag. But this is with an initial slow to medium speed load pressure on the line which is then kept relatively constant during the test. I guess I will try a fast, high velocity, short time loading of the line tied to my truck and see what instantaneous maximum drag pressures occur before the drag lets loose. That should be interesting. Also, I will spool down to only 1/3 of the line left on the spool and check the drag pressures and spool responses to see what 'gives'.

Following up on Sat night, we had to burn 2 hours getting decent fresh bait in the boat, so our fishing time was more limited than I would have hoped. No sharks, but a 44" bull red was fun on a penn open face spinning reel with 20# ande mono. Had to follow this one in the boat for about 10 minutes as it took out most of the line in the reel in the current pretty quick. In the end, got our hands on it for pictures before releasing in good condition. Now we're back home in Colorado, left to dreaming about the big ones til next time.