Line test and true world performance

[maxpowers]

I was wondering if anyone have broken any braided fishing line above 80 lbs test from heavy drags?  For most people, fishing 30-40 lbs of drag in stand-up  fashion would be pretty punishing...  Given that most braided lines actually break 20-40% above their stated strength why would anyone fished 130 or even 200 lbs braid other than for abrasion resistance?  I think with most heavy fishing 50 - 80 lbs braids would be more than sufficient to handle 99% of the critters out there.

[Keta]

I was wondering if anyone have broken any braided fishing line above 80 lbs test from heavy drags?  For most people, fishing 30-40 lbs of drag in stand-up  fashion would be pretty punishing...  Given that most braided lines actually break 20-40% above their stated strength why would anyone fished 130 or even 200 lbs braid other than for abrasion resistance?  I think with most heavy fishing 50 - 80 lbs braids would be more than sufficient to handle 99% of the critters out there.

I don't choose my braid by breaking strength, I'm more interested in diameter....especially in the lighter weights.   My most used weight is 60lb but I have some 30lb, 40lb, 80lb and on my large reels 130lb and 200lb.

[LTM]

[I don't choose my braid by breaking strength, I'm more interested in diameter....especially in the lighter weights. 

Hey Lee,

What aspects of diameter and why?  Explain in regards to lighter weights please.

Thanx,

Leo

[Keta]

I like a full spool but don't need hundreds of yards of line for kokanee so I use 60lb for all but my small Calcutta 50's, they have 30lb.  I use 10lb topshots for kokanee (6"-18") and steelhead (5-20 lbs)
Thinner line cuts your hands worse than thicker line.
Thicker line has more water resistance so for deep fishing I use 60lb rather than 80lb.

My kite reels (Penn 50SW and 70) are set up with hundreds of yards of lighter 130lb with a 100 yard section of 200lb on the hook end so I can crank down the drag during the last part of the fight.

I use short mono or fluro topshots (10'-20' for most uses with my trolling reels at 100')  of the proper weight for the rods and set my drags for the rod not the line.

[Tightlines667]

"so I can crank down the drag during the last part of the fight."

Guess kite fishing is different....more large Pelagics are lost at boat-side due to anglers not backing the drag off, or even worse..cranking it down during the last part of the fight, then I care to recount.  If fish are brought to boat-side 'green' a last minute surge, or run, especially after a missed or misplaced gaff shot is all but guaranteed.  A short section of line (and/or heavy leader) and having a powerful fish close to the end of the rod tip, along with the other hazards to gear associated with the vessel (keel,prop,engine,transom,etc), and the fact that the gear has been stretched, stressed, and worn throughout the duration of the fight...makes backing the drag off (or placing the reel in freespool with clicker to prevent backlash) especially when leadering a fish, a prudent course of action.  I typically would free spool the reel on all large fish (from Musky, to grouper, to tiger sharks, to Kings, Cobia, tuna, marlin, and others), I've caught over the years.

I know this is a reel repair, and not a fishing forum per say, and this post has nothing to do with how to handle fish at boat side....the comment caught my attention, so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.  I mean no disrespect..I'm sure you know what your doing out there 

[Keta]

I'm talking large YFT.  I use circle hooks and they seldom pull, I see more lost fish caused by the hook working loose due to a long fight or pumping.  A longer rod gives you a buffer too.

[Tightlines667]

That's a h*** of a nice fish!  I've caught hundreds of nice Yellowfin up to 130 class, and have seen thousands landed commercially...The majority of my fishing has been in Bermuda (catching light line-class world record fish, on the chunk), Louisiana, Florida, and in the more recent past 14 years in Hawaii.  Working as a fisheries biologist on small and large commercial vessels, I have witnessed over 7,000 tuna being landed and can attest that:
1)Circle hooks rarely pull free during the fight (if set properly)
2)Most lost fish occur at boat-side, either during gaffing, or a boat-side surge
3)Most lost fish result from -Crimp/knot failure,;-mono parting (often when contacting the vessel, gaff, another fish, shark, etc;-pulled hooks


While witnessing the commercial landings, I noticed that I became very adept at predicting lost fish based on crew action.  Usually when too much pressure was applied to the fish at the wrong time, with too little 'cushion', the fish was lost due to one of the previously mentioned culprits.  Having said that, a tuna can only go forward, and if you have the gear to control its head effectively, you can control the fish.  Check out dangler fishing Hawaii style, or witness the free gaffing of a completly green, free-swimming 'double marker' Bigeye for example.  Logic would dictate, the fish will win...and the angler will be going overboard, but if you can keep the head under control, the fish is under control.  I have leadered huge (1000lb+), 'hot' mako sharks and other large fish and have noticed that timing and direction are more important in controlling the fish then simple brute strength. Many times these fish can be directed where to go almost as if you were walking a dog on a leash, or a horse with bridle.  For instance, strangely enough, I have witnessed many instances of large YFT that have been brought to boat side under heavy pressure, suddenly relax and revert to calm, easily direct-able, upright swimming behavior boat side when the pressure is backed off after a fish nears the surface.  Muskys routinely do the same thing.  I can attest some of the largest sharks that I've caught the quickest had less pressure throughout the fight.  Many fish fight harder when pressured more.  Conversely, sometimes they relax, and 'learn to take direction' better when overall pressure is relaxed during the fight.  May sound crazy, but I've witnessed this behavior on so many different species on so many occasions I'm a believer. 
This pacifying type behaviour seems to be much more common on fish that have already got some lactic acid built up during a 'pressured fight'.

I apologize for the long-winded diatribe regarding boat side manner, and the peculiarities of hooked fish behaviour. 

I can agree that Slack line during a fight ESP after an extended fight will likely result in a pulled hook (ESP if its not a circle).

Just my thoughts

[day0ne]

Given that most braided lines actually break 20-40% above their stated strength why would anyone fished 130 or even 200 lbs braid other than for abrasion resistance?  I think with most heavy fishing 50 - 80 lbs braids would be more than sufficient to handle 99% of the critters out there.

Don't bet on that 20-40%. It's just not true of all braids. A classic example is Daiwa Boat Braid. It actually breaks at the pound test. This is why most Asian lines are sold by the PE number and not the breaking strength. The PE number equates to the line diameter, which gives you a reference point that all lines match, i.e., all PE 8 lines should be of approximately the same diameter but can be different breaking strengths. Another point is every run of a line will probably break at a different pound test, even though it is the same line. You are right that 50-80 lb line will handle a lot of fishing situations but I'm not sure it will handle 99% of them. It depends on where you are fishing (structure, no structure), what you are fishing from (small boat, shore, big boat anchored, etc), and what you are catching, plus all the other factors mentioned on this thread. Example, when I'm fishing for Amberjack on an oil rig, I use 80 lb hollow with 50-75 yards of either 100 or 130 spliced on the end for abrasion resistance. Another example, I caught an approx 170 lb sandbar shark on 50 lb braid and a 40 lb mono leader, so it can be done, but it wasn't fun, it was work. He didn't even know I was there for awhile. I thought I had snagged the bottom.

[JGB]

Spectra line has a notorious lack of shock load strength and with the advent of short top shots it is made even worse. so when a hot fish shakes it's head or it is tail wrapped the shock load is added to the strain on the line (set by the drag setting) and can cause even the heavy braid to fail. I have done some testing and 80# will break with a 8# ball dropped from around 1 foot yet it will test a over 100# of steady pull. You compensate for this with a well tuned drag, a rod that is still flexible (not  shut off as many graphite's will do) , and using the shock absorbing stretch of the leader. The choice of knots also makes a huge difference (Aussie braid is superior to the Bimini when it comes to shock strength).
Heavy lines help reduce break offs due to line wear, tangles, kelp and stress at the line guides where the line makes sharp angles. Heavy lines also increase the water induced drag more than thin lines  increasing the pressure on the fish when it is running fast and it also helps to keep enough pressure on the hook to help keep it from falling out on slack line. This does not apply if the fish doing tail walks as the thick line allows the fish to throw slack in the line more easily.
At the boat with big fish try to have the fish worn out so it does not do a hale Mary on you at the most inopportune time and so you can control it's head. You can tighten down the drag but I prefer to apply that extra pressure with the thumb on the spool and for grip so I can control the pressure and let up in an instant if needed.
Lighter line has less drag in the water, is more susceptible to damage from wear, kelp and tangles but allows lots of line on the reel and better live bait presentation (you get bit more often).

For heavy line it is it's resistance to damage and shock that counts the most. For light line it is all about presentation  so thin is better and remember to have your rod and drag well tuned if you plan to test your light line to the limit and check your line for damage 0ften.

For the record I fish light to very light ( 30# to 50# solid braid -small diameter) for YFT to 125#. Most other guys will be fishing 65# braid but every year I have to share the bite with a few more fishing the 30# to 50# braid with 30# or 35# short top. It takes well tuned reels and proven connections to fish Black Water 35# with up to 40#  of line pressure when bringing a fish up and 'killing' it ( keeping the head up at all cost). I do test all my braid and leader material for actual line strength and strength of connection in the off season so I know the limits of the lines I'm using. All lines flouro and braid vary in strength and diameter from lot to lot so beware that labeling can be misleading.

Jim N.

[Bunnlevel Sharker]

Ive snapped plenty of PP with like 15lbs of drag.......

[floating doc]

No matter how many times I see a photo of a big YFT, it still is hard to comprehend. 

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

if my memory serves me right i think on Alan T.'s last report 130 or 100lb snapped!  . this is what i think lab tests, if you will, doesn't even compare with real world use. like the automobiles same thing with lines...

[maxpowers]

Thanks everyone for your comments.  As for the 130 lbs braid that Alan T. broke, I think that was either bit off or sawed off by the shark.  I was more interested in someone with experience where the braid actually broke from constant pressure or increased pressure.

Mike

[BonitaBch]

Tightlines, what is the skinny on Fukushima, and damage to the ocean?

[Tightlines667]

Though the program I work for is not directly involved in predicting and analyzing the potential impacts of radiation dispersal and persistence.  The U of HI, NMFS NWFSC, Alaska regional program office, and the remote sensing divisions and oceanographic divisions are on it.  From what I can ascertain from the literature thus far...
Oceanographic Dispersal prediction models show that strong verticle mixing in the Western, and later in the Eastern Pacific will likely disperse the radiation to levels that are not likely to adversely impact the ecosystems, and/or show any significant cummulative affects in higher level organisms.  Surface water Dispersion models predict increased cesium concentrations throughout the North Pacific convergence zone moving eastwards during the first 3 years with the concentration shifting to the NE Pacific in roughly 3.2 years.  (This area is widely known as a seasonal Albacore hotspot).  Concentrations will roughly be cut in half annually and minuscule, but detectable levels will persist throughout much of the North Pacific for roughly 9 years.  No detectable levels of Cesium have been discovered in any of the commercially landed/sampled species tested this far in Alaska, HI, or the Pacific Northwest.  NMFS food safety officers in all 3 regional programs will be monitoring for risks/affects to commercially harvested species throughout this period.  My gut feeling is that upwards (bottom-up) movement/concentration of radiation at these levels is not likely to be an issue.  Teasing out potential direct effects of low level radiation on primary and secondary (top-down) producers, such as reproduction success, increased natural mutation levels, or others may be difficult.  Typically most persistant pollutantants top-down affects can result in overall decreased biodiversity of sub flora/fauna and increased frequency of typically 'rarer' type events..such as red tides, dead zones, decreased effective carbon sink, ect.  It will probably take 10-20 years to fully understand any measurable affects of this radiation on the North Pacific marine ecosystem. 

Here's a link to an article if interested:

http://fukushimaupdate.com/west-coast-of-north-america-to-be-hit-hard-by-fukushima-radiation/


In general when pursuing information regarding this issue... I would urge you to stick to science and avoid media-presented, or socio/economic/politically motivated information (ie fisheries management counsels).

Sorry, this isn't my specialty:(