Avet MXL MC Drag question

jaypeegee · January 02, 2014, 11:39:13 PM

Hi
I received an MXL MC reel recently. I already have the LX MC which I love.

The MXL has displayed a different drag experience to the LX and I wanted to know what your collective thoughts on why and where the difference might be.

The LX which is set just below the recommended Avet settings has a very smooth drag increase from bait to strike. As the Lever is pushed toward strike the drag increases proportionately.
The MX again set to just below Avet recommended specs seems to go to strike drag amount as soon as it is out of the bait position. So when the Lever is at strike it the drag pressure is almost exactly the same as it is just out of the bait position.

I haven't pulled it apart just yet. I likely will soon. I have read Alan's tute several times and it looks pretty easy .
Before doing so, it would be helpful to know what the symptoms I have described might indicate to you all.
Note that I live a wee way away from Avet's shop so I would consider returning it as a last resort.

Edit - Could this be the Bellevue washers fitted incorrectly at factory?
Thanks all.

alantani · January 05, 2014, 11:46:40 PM

it's all a function of how the cam is cut. you could cut that notch a little deeper and not get so much pressure on the drag.

jaypeegee · January 05, 2014, 11:59:34 PM

Hi

Thanks Alan, I will look at the cam and see if this is a way forward for me. I have pulled the reel apart a couple of times now to see if there were any obvious burrs or issues at build or assembly stage and there are none I can see.
I did notice that on the second reassemble that the drag had changed slightly for the better.
It now registers at 4# on strike and 9# on full with no loss of freespool. I could probably give it a little more but will go softly softly for now.
If the reel is working as designed then I will refrain from a destructive change.
I am aware that I am comparing it to it's big brother (The LX) So it may not be an apples to apples comparison.
I appreciate your reply and hope the info here helps anyone else that has bought this reel.

While they may not be everyone's cup of tea and there may be better reels available - I am very happy with my two . They both cast fight and retrieve well and are a pleasure for me to use.

If I need extra distance I can resort to an alternative reel, But once I get a little more confident that I can pull this reel apart and remove the grease, replacing it with oil TSI321 or reelx etc I may not need to resort to other reels.

On a related note to that: Have you considered the Ultra ever dry product as an alternative to grease?

Pricey but one wonders if it has validity...

alantani · January 06, 2014, 12:27:43 AM

been pretty happy with yamaha grease. in general, it's less important what you use, just as long as you use something!

jaypeegee · January 06, 2014, 01:35:27 AM

That's the thing...
The ever dry product looks as though you could use nothing

alantani · January 06, 2014, 02:02:33 AM

looks like it would be a great product to use in areas that have a problem with graffitti!

jaypeegee · January 06, 2014, 09:11:12 PM

I have thought more on this and still wonder if this is by design or not.
That is, shouldn't the drag increase proportionately to the lever position?
It strikes me that by modding the part as suggested will not impact the drag in this way but rather just make it necessary to screw in the adjustment knob further to get the same affect.

Which would mean a shorter range of settings to get the same affect which seems counter intuitive.

Am I right in this?

Bryan Young · January 06, 2014, 09:47:37 PM

A linear drag curve would be nice. I think there are more physics at play and way above my pay grade to figure out.

jaypeegee · January 06, 2014, 11:42:51 PM

The LX certainly has a better curve. It also has a different Bellevue combination and there are 6 not 4. Is this where the drag curve comes from?

SoCalAngler · January 07, 2014, 05:52:30 AM

In my SX which has the same drags as the MX's is pretty much as linner a curve as my JX which has the same drags as your LX. I know when I was trying to smooth out the drag curve, going from strike just into full, on my JX adjusting the belleville configuration had a large impact on the ramp up of the drags lever. Someone may have been in that reel before you or when putting them back in the configuration from stock got changed. Try playing around with the belleville's, try different combinations like, ()(), (()), ((() or ())). The stock config. is ()() if I remember correctly but I have seen other config's in other reels. Also make sure the cam is seated correctly in the lever. Lastly you do have the lever in the free position when installing it, right? If not I think you would have lever acting strangly when trying to use it after putting it back on but I guess it has a slight chance of making the ramp up too steep also if not installed when in free.

Edit: Here is a link on what I did to my JX. I know it is not a MX but this is where I found the drag ramp changes by changing the belleville config in my JX.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7246.0

jaypeegee · January 07, 2014, 08:35:20 AM

Quote from: SoCalAngler on January 07, 2014, 05:52:30 AM
In my SX which has the same drags as the MX's is pretty much as linner a curve as my JX which has the same drags as your LX. I know when I was trying to smooth out the drag curve, going from strike just into full, on my JX adjusting the belleville configuration had a large impact on the ramp up of the drags lever. Someone may have been in that reel before you or when putting them back in the configuration from stock got changed. Try playing around with the belleville's, try different combinations like, ()(), (()), ((() or ())). The stock config. is ()() if I remember correctly but I have seen other config's in other reels. Also make sure the cam is seated correctly in the lever. Lastly you do have the lever in the free position when installing it, right? If not I think you would have lever acting strangly when trying to use it after putting it back on but I guess it has a slight chance of making the ramp up too steep also if not installed when in free.

Edit: Here is a link on what I did to my JX. I know it is not a MX but this is where I found the drag ramp changes by changing the belleville config in my JX.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7246.0

Hi SoCal

Reel was brand new.
I checked the Bellevue config against the schematic and it was as expected ()()
I am not sure I want to mod the reel by changing these around just yet but wont discount that as a possibility in future.
Lever has been in the free position in all scenarios - Disassembly and drag adjustment.
I appreciate the link to the JX- Many thanks.

I do not understand what you mean by cam seated in the lever correctly?
As in solidly together? I infer you mean to ensure that there isn't an issue with it being seated correctly and that if seated incorrectly it may be driving the drag too aggressively due to the tolerance impact?

I notice that the brake bearing sits slightly proud of the brake disc - Is that to be expected?

SoCalAngler · January 07, 2014, 03:51:44 PM

If you looked at the JX link you saw the cam is lightly pressed into the lever. THe cam and lever are two different pieces. If it is in correctly the cam will sit flush against the housing/flanges in the lever. The break bearing should fit inside recessed area in the break disk when on the spool shaft. It dosn't sit flush in the break disk as the breaing is thicker than the recess.

jaypeegee · January 14, 2014, 11:27:40 PM

OK. So I am an idiot.
It transpires that Alan was correct re the Cam cut and to get the reel to behave as I want is to look at modding the cam or buying a Kodiak cam and replacing mine.
As my LX has the smooth drag as bought I figured the MX would have been delivered in the same fashion. But not so.
I have contacted Avet and TackleDirect to inquire into purchasing a Cam but have had no response yet.

Can anyone suggest an online store where I could purchase one from?
I am in NZ so Intl shipping must be a possibility

Thanks

alantani · January 15, 2014, 07:12:33 PM

you can adjust the drag curve with a hand file and some patience. as you file away material from the cam, you will be decreasing the amount of drag. you want to file away "high" spots, keeping in mind that the "detents" or grooves built into the cam have slightly less drag than the high spots on either side.

jaypeegee · January 16, 2014, 03:33:42 AM

Quote from: alantani on January 15, 2014, 07:12:33 PM
you can adjust the drag curve with a hand file and some patience. as you file away material from the cam, you will be decreasing the amount of drag. you want to file away "high" spots, keeping in mind that the "detents" or grooves built into the cam have slightly less drag than the high spots on either side.
[/quote

OK. I will rip out the cam on the LX and do a visual compare to see where the difference lies (presuming that the LX smoothness comes solely from the cam ) and then (maybe) have a crack
I looked at the link that was kindly posted but eyesight prevents me from fully understanding what I am seeing translated to how the cam interacts with the (presumed) washer config to create pressure at point of drag washer.

In case I baulk at the hand mods (not the worlds bestest handy man)

Any online stores that could assist that anyone here feels confident to suggest>?