senator advice needed

Started by bill19804, May 19, 2022, 12:46:33 AM

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bill19804

help

my  neighbor  just  move  his  boat  from  chesapeake  to  atlantic ocean  marina.
his  biggest reel  is  equivalent  to  3/0  senator..
suggested  he  go  bigger  to  a  6/0

but  which  one?  black  or  red  older  versions  not  new.  fishing  will  be  trolling  and  bait  less  then  30  miles off  shore.

there  are  schoolie  yft  and  bft at times  bigger tuna  models,  spanish  macks,  wahoo,  bluefish   plus  smaller  critters  in  that  area

what  to  recommend? all  my  gear  is  accurate  so  no personal  experience

all  advice  accepted

should  note  hes  not  real  big  on  maintenance,  leaves  gear  on  boat at  times

Bill B

Assuming new gear like a Fathom 60LD2 is out, you can't  go wrong with a 114H 6/0.  Wide version 114HLW if possible.  But then again the 4/0 113H and the 113HLW will handle 90% of the fish he is targeting. The east coast guys will chime in soon.  Bill
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

Squidder Bidder

On the Mid Atlantic (NY/NJ) the standard for trolling and chunking tuna has been an International 30 which has a maximum drag of 30lbs. Line capacity probably won't be much of an issue. N.B. It is said that the maximum drag a normal human man can handle fishing stand up is 45lbs.

I don't have drag figures on the older Senators to see which size matches the drag figures of the 30 but I'll bet you won't have to wait long around here for someone to give them to you.

Swami805

Before the advent of braid and 2 speeds my go to for a heavy trolling outfit was a 6/0 114H with a newell kit.  Killed all kinds of fish with it, tuna wahoo,yellowtail, marlin, The wide kit with 100lb mono.  Bang for the buck tough to beat
Do what you can with that you have where you are

bill19804

new  reels  are  not  possible in  this  situation. figured  6/0  gives  enough  line  capacity  if  he  wants  to  do  some  deep  water  canypn  fishing  for  tuna.  wondering  if  gear  ration difference  or  bearing  type  make a difference.  the  2.0:1  ratio  of  black  seems  to  be  more  powerful  then  higher  ratios  in  red  model. also  poor  maintenance   is  not  kind  to  ball  bearing  models.
so  unless  new  info  pops  up im  gonna  recommend  a  good  used  black  model

thanks  everyone  for  ideas.

handi2

Go with the high speed 114H. By today's standards it's not high speed at all.

The black 6/0 has much smaller drag washers.

About half the size as the red 6/0
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

bill19804

well  handi  changed  my  mind in  a  flash  red  it  will  be

thanks  everyone

Brewcrafter

Are we talking used?  I could go either way on this.  And truthfully either option will probably work just fine.  I really pretty much agree with all of the thoughts above, and since I have good experience with both:
1. If you are looking about for used, I am guessing a Black 114 could probably be had for a a few less $$$
2. Since it appears maintenance (or lack thereof) may be a consideration - the Black with solid bearings (bushings) will probably be a little more forgiving.  And assuming that you can find it for less as in consideration #1 - less $$ on something that may have to be replaced soon anyway.
3.  I'm calling overall line capacity a wash between the two.
4.  Gears and Drag:
4A.  As mentioned above the gear ratio of either of these reels is kind of irrelevant when compared to modern stuff (which is not to say they won't work, they will).  You are looking at low and lower.  Yes with the 114H due to the bigger (9/0 size) gear you can get a stronger drag stack, and a little more speed.  Not being familiar with your fishery, how much line would be typical to have out?  Since you said trolling, I'm thinking way inside <100 yards, that would be doable for me with the 2.1:1 of the black reel, but much over that I'm gonna get tired of cranking and that 2.8:1 is gonna look better.  (I lie.  At my age I am looking at the 4:1 I have in mine from the aftermarket gear set  ;D )
4B.  Drag - with quality aftermarket stacks, either one of these outfits will make plenty of drag, and most importantly way above what they were originally conceived for.  Are we talking an inexpensive used 1970's model refurbished with a modern drag? Or if you get a "new off the shelf model" it will certainly handle the drag that it has from the factory.  Yes the 114H will make more.  Exact numbers I do not know, my two 6/0 are semi-retired.  But part of me feels that if the difference in absolute drag figures between the two reels is that critical then maybe time to revisit the "get something designed after 1960" argument...
5.  Since the primary application is trolling, and it appears it is his boat, I would also guess that adds the flexibility of actually being able to back down on or "chase" a fish if one of the bigger models gets hooked?  To put it in perspective, I trolled up and brought boatside a very pissed off 7' Mako with a bone stock 113H.  Totally kicked my ####, but the reel certainly wasn't fazed.
I think you are fine with either option. - john

Keta

#8
Quote from: bill19804 on May 19, 2022, 03:10:58 AMnew  reels  are  not  possible in  this  situation. figured  6/0  gives  enough  line  capacity  if  he  wants  to  do  some  deep  water  canypn  fishing  for  tuna. 

With modern reels out I would recommend the higher speed 113H and 114H reels. 

That said I would suggest looking into Fathom 40NLD2 or 60LD2 reels.

I have 3 or 4 114H reels I could sell after I service them if he wants used AMERICAN BUILT reels.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Gfish

The guy don't like to FW rinse his stuff. Myself I godda use alota will power to do mine ASAP. Ball-bearings on the spool and the underside of the main gear area are a problem for me with Penn(esp. With the Senators), sometimes even with a good rinse. Don't know...
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Porthos

#10
Hmm...

An all metal Daiwa 400H (less than 24hrs left for the auction below):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125314864848?epid=1220511084&hash=item1d2d5916d0:g:qr8AAOSwKZligBJO

And one of these:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12785.0

Then do this:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8.0

Reel (if bought at min bid), new handle, new CF drag washers, and Cal's Universal grease should make this a less than $150 project.

A 1000yd spool of 100lb Charkbait 8-strand in white will run $100-ish after shipping (reel will take 500-600 yds):
https://charkbait.com/product/toro-tamer-8-strand-solid-braid/

60 or 80 lb mono top shots...

Quote from: bill19804 on May 19, 2022, 12:46:33 AM...should  note  hes  not  real  big  on  maintenance,  leaves  gear  on  boat at  times

That will exclude any modern 2-spd from consideration.

He should at least have 1 water bottle of FW at the end of the day to rinse off any reel (Senator or otherwise) and wipe down with a clean rag. The marine grease that he uses for his boat's propulsion system should be applied to all reel's internal and enclosed metal surfaces outside of the drag stack.

YMMV...


handi2

The Daiwa reels just can't match the Penn Senator reels in drag capabilities
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

Porthos

#12
Quote from: handi2 on May 22, 2022, 03:54:04 AMThe Daiwa reels just can't match the Penn Senator reels in drag capabilities

???

Factory:



Sure, a 400H 5+1 upgrade will not beat a 113H 7+1 upgrade, but will the OP's friend even go there?

Benni3

#13
The 3/0 for the Chesapeake Bay is perfect,,,,but now what is he fishing for,,,, the 4/0 with new carbon fiber drag washers can handle most,,, a 9/0 that's been upgraded can handle anything and with the cortez frame make it very light,,,,,, ;D

thorhammer

I caught a 250 lb, eight foot shark on a bone stock 114HLW with 50lb Ande. I was in really good shape at the time, and I put enough heat on the Magnaflex that it permanently torqued the solid glass out of line. The reel never wavered. With heavier line I'd have just cranked up. Short of a really large shark, or maybe a big YFT, the 6/0 will do 99.9 percent of what is needed just fine off Va. coast, at reasonable cost and easy tempermant. My 0.02 from NC.