Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Given the low RPM of reels (even spool bearings during a massive cast get nowhere near what an industrial engineer would consider a high-speed application) is there any point at all splashing out on ABEC 5 or 7 bearings when ABEC 1 is quite sufficient?

Providing materials are adequately durable and corrosion resistant, why pay for unnecessarily high precision?

Thoughts?

Spool bearings required fairly fast ,never try to figure out how many RPM it should be just feel that .a little bearings have to turn many round to get 50 feet in few second

Here is a link to what Alan wrote about bearings.

https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,13.0.html

It's a good read.  Bill

So those speed ratings are based on how fast it can go before the heat from the friction caused by imperfect surfaces is enough to make the bearing fail. That number is almost irrelevant when the goal is to refine the performance of a piece of machinery that you hopefully enjoy using.

Do your own freespool test with a set of high end ceramic spool bearings vs the cheapest least precise bearings you can find. There will be a difference. It's up to you whether that difference is worth spending money on.

Quote from: quang tran on October 26, 2024, 11:18:37 PMSpool bearings required fairly fast ,never try to figure out how many RPM it should be just feel that .a little bearings have to turn many round to get 50 feet in few second

But still nowhere near the RPM of, say, a router (19000)

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 27, 2024, 01:40:13 AMSo those speed ratings are based on how fast it can go before the heat from the friction caused by imperfect surfaces is enough to make the bearing fail. That number is almost irrelevant when the goal is to refine the performance of a piece of machinery that you hopefully enjoy using.

Do your own freespool test with a set of high end ceramic spool bearings vs the cheapest least precise bearings you can find. There will be a difference. It's up to you whether that difference is worth spending money on.

But.....The ABEC rating only relates to the bearing dimensions and does not specify many critical factors: load capabilities, ball precision, materials, material hardness, corrosion resistance, degree of ball/raceway polishing.

Even looking at the maximum permissible inner race deviation from centre, for a 20mm inner diameter bearing, difference for ABEC 1-5 is only 6μm*. Sorry but fishing reels are not manufactured to those sort of tolerances.

*For US members 6μm = 0.0002362205''

I can accept the concept of best possible for a spool bearing on a casting reel but a bearing we are going to pack with NLGI2 grease - no way!

Quote from: cathauler65 on October 27, 2024, 08:18:24 AMI can accept the concept of best possible for a spool bearing on a casting reel but a bearing we are going to pack with NLGI2 grease - no way!

Agreed.
Abec ratings are far from the most important spec. But it's an easy one to advertise and easy for folks to search for.

If I could source them in the correct sizes, I think I'd be very happy to replace many of my reels' bearings with bronze bushings - similar to those on my old ABU7000.

Anyone know any UK/EU suppliers of small bronze bushings?

Quote from: cathauler65 on October 27, 2024, 12:43:52 PMIf I could source them in the correct sizes, I think I'd be very happy to replace many of my reels' bearings with bronze bushings - similar to those on my old ABU7000.

Anyone know any UK/EU suppliers of small bronze bushings?

Funny I've been working on the same. I have different goals for different reels. I have a recent thread going on that topic. I just search on eBay for the size and the words "oilite" or "bushing". One of the packs, ironically actually came from England. So yeah there's gotta be more over there. Also some are currently on their way from China. Probably not that different shipping from China to USA than it is to the UK.

In a nutshel, you (OP) are correct.  ABEC grade does not directly correspond to bearing quality, and the higher grades are only required  for extended operation at extremely high  RPMs, which not only requires better tolerances on the bearing, but also requires that the entire assembly is extremely well aligned and well balanced, which is not what you are going  to find on a fishing reel.

We were talking about this on the weekly zoom call yesterday:  if you move about  three inches of line per spool revolution on your ABU, that means four revolutions per foot, or twelve revolutions per yard.  100 yards ( maybe 80 yards casting distance) is only 120 1200 revolutions.

IMHO, most of the performance changes folk find when swapping bearings has to do with not having an apples to apples comparison in terms of wear, cleanliness, and lubrication.

-j

Dave my good sir you missed a zero but you made your point

Quote from: jurelometer on October 27, 2024, 05:13:05 PMIn a nutshel, you (OP) are correct.  ABEC grade does not directly correspond to bearing quality, and the higher grades are only required  for extended operation at extremely high  RPMs, which not only requires better tolerances on the bearing, but also requires that the entire assembly is extremely well aligned and well balanced, which is not what you are going  to find on a fishing reel.

We were talking about this on the weekly zoom call yesterday:  if you move about  three inches of line per spool revolution on your ABU, that means four revolutions per foot, or twelve revolutions per yard.  100 yards ( maybe 80 yards casting distance) is only 120 revolutions.

IMHO, most of the performance changes folk find when swapping bearings has to do with not having an apples to apples comparison in terms of wear, cleanliness, and lubrication.

-j

Yes only 120 revolutions in about 2 sec (time the line start come out till bait drop in water ) It required average speed 3600 RPM and to get that average speed 3600 rpm the fastest spool speed required is much more around 7200 rpm .Poor quality bearings greatly reduce casting distance and worn out fairly quick

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on October 27, 2024, 05:35:27 PMDave my good sir you missed a zero but you made your point

Aargh.  I always do that.  Thanks.  I will fix my post.

Quote from: quang tran on October 27, 2024, 05:50:02 PM

Quote from: jurelometer on October 27, 2024, 05:13:05 PMIn a nutshel, you (OP) are correct.  ABEC grade does not directly correspond to bearing quality, and the higher grades are only required  for extended operation at extremely high  RPMs, which not only requires better tolerances on the bearing, but also requires that the entire assembly is extremely well aligned and well balanced, which is not what you are going  to find on a fishing reel.

We were talking about this on the weekly zoom call yesterday:  if you move about  three inches of line per spool revolution on your ABU, that means four revolutions per foot, or twelve revolutions per yard.  100 yards ( maybe 80 yards casting distance) is only 120 revolutions.

IMHO, most of the performance changes folk find when swapping bearings has to do with not having an apples to apples comparison in terms of wear, cleanliness, and lubrication.

-j

Yes only 120 revolutions in about 2 sec (time the line start come out till bait drop in water ) It required average speed 3600 RPM and to get that average speed 3600 rpm the fastest spool speed required is much more around 7200 rpm .Poor quality bearings greatly reduce casting distance and worn out fairly quick

Not that it matters but (if I didn't screw up my math again [edit- I screwed up math again   corrected now in this post - my thanks to Quang] ),  I don't think you get an average of 3600 RPMs.  1200 revolutions in 2 seconds is an average of  600 360000 RPMs.  And I would guess at least five seconds for an eighty yard cast, so no more than 14400 RPMs. 

And ABEC ratings are not directly related to quality.  Those high end bearings are intended for extended operation (hours and hours) at 50,000 or more RPMs.


In my opinion, if the bearings are at least relatively  decent quality, more performance  opportunity is to be found in thorough cleaning, proper lubrication and preventing corrosion.

-j

like I said I never try to figure out the rpm .Just trust my felling that it turn fairly fast
120 rev in 2 sec
60 rev in 1 sec
60x 60 in 60 sec
3600 rpm
Spoon speed don't get up speed right away ,it take time and then it will have to slow down because out of pulling force or you thump spool to slow it down when bait almost hit target so max speed have to be more than double 7200 rpm
and if you figure out 1200 rev in 5 sec
1200 rev in 5 sec
1200x60/5  it will be 14400 rpm average .Lots of damage

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on this, jurelometer