Fin Nor LT 100 rated well by Alan Hawk. Ok, its a spinner.

[johndtuttle]

Would love to hear your impressions and your point about the value is absolutely correct.

All casual spin fisherman will benefit if Fin Nor can make this simple reel with quality components for years to come. It has every "required" feature without the hundreds of dollars spent on un-needed sealing and line rollers engineered apparently for a Nasa trip to Mars that some of the super spinners have.

I just wish they made a size just like this that held 300yards of 50lb braid. 



best

[Tile]

Along with the Offshore series the Lethal 100 is another firm recommendation for the big game freshwater anglers. I was impressed by the build quality, design and use of materials.

There are three aspects that make or break a reel be it a spinner or a multiplier and they are
- design
- materials
- execution (build quality)

Any failure on at least one of them definitely breaks a reel

[foakes]

This is only my opinion – just an observation:

One thing we need to be aware of is the bigger picture in worldwide business nowadays.

Our world has become flatter with the instant communication of information.  The sun never sets on the internet.

This has allowed us to do things we never could have realized a couple of decades ago -- operate businesses, communicate freely with anyone, belong to forums like this one, share information 24/7, consider various opinions, and offer ideas -- all instantly.

However, there are also larger forces at work -- some good, some bad -- but they are a reality and here to stay. 

For example, there is a place for small independent companies that offer service and products to a specific demographic of clients.

But, the mid-level manufacturers are being gobbled up by larger corporations at an alarming rate.  Take for example, Pure Fishing – they have brought some of the biggest names in the angling industry under one roof (ABU, Mitchell, Penn, etc...)  But even then, Pure Fishing is owned by a much larger company that owns 120 or so companies the size of Pure Fishing. 

The motivation for these super large conglomerates is profit, cash flow, and stock values prior to another acquisition – or spinning off some of their non-performing companies as these may no longer fit their business model.

It is all $$$ -- and really has little or nothing to do with our fishing tackle industry.  It just boils down to mathematics, cash flow, stock values -- and to a somewhat lesser extent -- corporate executive egos & the plumping up of resumes.

We live in a day and age of planned obsolescence of manufactured products.  Companies have figured out about how long a product should last before the consumer gets tired or bored with it – and at or near that point the product generally fails – and the consumer buys another.  And the vast majority of world-wide consumers have just accepted this as the way things are.

I'm just a little guy, a reel mechanic who charges $18 - $20 to service a fishing reel.  I have a passion for the engineering, mechanics, and the skill required to do a good job for my clients.

So, when a product comes along like a Fin Nor L100 – I don't get too excited that it will be the reel that will change the angling world (it won't) – but it will be a good value -- manufactured by a company that may even listen to folks like Alan Hawk, Alan Tani, John Tuttle, and other recognized experts in the industry.  These experts may recommend upgrades and changes – and generally a responsible company will incorporate those ideas into their next manufacturing release.

And then again, the smaller battles between departments within a company (Marketing, Engineering, Manufacturing, Accounting) may smother the whole reel out of existence – or it may become a company like Shimano, Okuma, Daiwa, or Penn – all of whom try to put quality at the forefront.

And, we can be hopeful that this reel will be a winner over time – but there are many factors at work here that we have little control over.

For some of you who haven't seen John Tuttle's tutorial on the Penn 704Z (yes, a spinning reel) – it is very well done and brilliant.

Here is the link to it on the Alan Tani website:

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6971.0

Best Regards,

Fred

[Reinaard van der Vossen]

Fred,

All very true. Have nothing against economics of scale.

But if pure fishing is not making the reels we want for the price we are willing to pay their cash flow will deteriorate.

I will try, at least for myself, to evaluate and justify a purchase.

Within reason of course, fish is cheaper than gear and gallons

[LTM]

Would love to hear your impressions and your point about the value is absolutely correct.

All casual spin fisherman will benefit if Fin Nor can make this simple reel with quality components for years to come. It has every "required" feature without the hundreds of dollars spent on un-needed sealing and line rollers engineered apparently for a Nasa trip to Mars that some of the super spinners have.

I just wish they made a size just like this that held 300yards of 50lb braid.  

best

Maxpower please follow up with your impressions of the reel. To all of you, thanx for your comments which I found have much merit.

Ive a problem with Chinese made products and that is that IMHO the quality of manufacturing/materials is "MARGINALIZED TO THE MINIMUM" extent possible within the design/manufacture/materials specifications given. One could argue that "most" manufacturer's do in this "throw away" age that we live in, however not to the extent that the Chinese do IMHO.

im aware/own some Chinese products of "higher quality", but that is either by mistake or no other option. Even these higher quality products have issues that I dont find with other US or other quality products NOT manufactured in China. Ive NEVER  seen or heard of a "over-built" Chinese made product as I have first hand experience with other products that I own. With the last space shuttle disaster, NASA engineers found Chinese made products had been soourced for some components (not that they caused the disaster). NASA pulled all Chinese parts from the shuttle and that says something.

Its not my intent to bash Chinese products here, for I can understand a nation of 3+ BILLION people in a "closed " society needing to meet the demands for it population. However China NOW manufactures for the world and has been for awhile now and must compete with whats left  of the "quality" manufacturers for market share.

John, I put some of your comment in bold letters to bring attention to this is what Penn did with their SS series, and what I like about them is they used the same materials/build in their entire series of 2nd gen reels and why they are still viable reels of QUALITY 30+ years later which speaks volumes about quality builds.

I look forward to see how well this reel holds up, for I'll jump-ship in a second from my newly aquired set of SS reels if they address the issues and use the same quality parts in their entire line of this reel.

Leo

[wallacewt]

this washer was of rubber material and distorted,
not sure you can see it next to calipers.
threw it away and replaced with 1mm carbon fibre
serviced the reel, plenty of grease, they missed a few spots (everybody does)

c/f washers are .5mm thick,i regreased.
only fault I found was one of the screws
that hold the slider to the shaft was loose.
80lb braid wound on nice and even
17lb of drag was smooth
go fish,cheers

[wallacewt]

ps; 300m x 80lb braid +20m 100lb leader

[maxpowers]

Thank you Wallace.  Is that rubber washer, the one underneath the spool or is it part of the drag stack?  You were only able to get 17 lbs of drag?

[wallacewt]

i only tried 17lb,i cant handle any more.plenty left.
the washer is underneath the spool.
give it a service,its simple and easy.
i didnt find any loctite on mine

[Alan_Hawk]

Hello people!

I was directed to this discussion by one of my readers. I no more post on web forums because it takes time that I no more have to check and recheck threads and respond and rebut, but I'm making an exception this time since John is indeed a friend whose opinion I value greatly and if someone is worth the time it's definitely him.

SSVs have landed huge numbers of tuna and jacks without this issue ever making it to the forums other than the one time Alan relates.

Actually John that's not the case. There have been many reports of gearing problems of the SSV reels on forums. Here are a few screen shots of such examples, some state clearly that pinions broke, and some are confused users whose reels locked up describing symptoms that I have no doubt indicate gearing deformation/breakage.



These are just a few samples that over time people sent to me and I bookmarked for reference, but there are more if you search. In addition to the public complaints, I did get a considerable number of messages from people whose SSV suffered gearing failures as well. There is an issue with the gear, no question about it.

the Stella 2013 SW he reviewed. These problems did show up in similar size Stellas but not in others.

Actually the problem does appear on some of the smaller sizes as well. Here is a quick example of someone who posted that the problem is found on his 6000 and 14000



Also if you check the screen shots in my blog entry named "Recalls, rubbish, and web" you will see that on Shimano's facebook someone told them that he surveyed people he knows and that he found that the rotor play exists in different sizes but more obvious in 8000 and up. It's not at all an issue with the size I tested or I would definitely have mentioned that it's just one size. In addition to these public examples, I have received a large number of complaints about various sizes of SW privately, as well as people who told me they didn't sense a perceptible play on theirs.

Of course I don't blame John at all for not knowing about these. He doesn't have my resources nor he is contacted by hundreds of people with links and reel failure complaints as is the case with me. He remains one of the most talented fishermen I know and I always forward people to his brilliant tutorials, and I hope that by stating the above examples I would get even more of his confidence

One thing I want to point out in general; when I post that a reel has failed then other people report that theirs worked fine, it doesn't mean that I had a unique situation or a lemon. What I do is that I systematically challenge the reel up to it's FULL advertised capability, and if a failure occurs I pin point the stage at which it happened. So in the case of the Penn SSV, it was advertised as being able to work at 35lb of drag, then mine broke at the 22lbs point. How many people who casually fish their SSV and report "no issues" have actually used them at that high drag mark? When you hear these things don't take it as a contradiction between my findings and their reports. Rather I have access to fishing situations where I methodically test a particular reel to its limits, other users simply don't do that and they don't come anywhere close to fishing at full advertised figures. This extends to all my reels be it a Penn or a Stella/Saltiga/VS/Quantum/Okuma etc.

I'm not claiming that whatever I say is written in stone. Just a guy doing his best and could get things right or wrong. It's just that with my reviews being shared by such a large a global following I have a massive responsibility not to say anything before I make sure it's as accurate as humanely possible at the time of writing, that it's not one of a kind situation, and the amount of time and effort I put into this is something you wouldn't believe just to make sure I offer the best information I can manage as a one-man-operation.

Regarding the other points, well, of course I'm smitten I never though let my personal feelings get in the way of objective evaluation. I was the one who found and exposed the finish and casting issues, I was the one who showed a problem with the line lay using thin line when it spools thicker line (that you would use) much better, and I was the one who mentioned a drag heating issue so slight that 95% of the users will never feel. I'm as brutal as always and showing everything to the people so they can make up their own minds, then adding my own take which is since nothing affected reliability and real life performance I consider it the best value out there for the lousy amount it costs. I did find much worse finish issues on the spool and handle of the Stella SW which costs as much as 11 Lethals!!

Thanks John and everyone who posted for your continuing trust and the very nice things said about me in this thread, and to AlanTani; since you dared to bad mouth my beloved spinning reels, I have to tell you that I hate conventional reels and think they are ugly and smelly! If you do it again I will write a review about YOU personally and tell the world that you're suffering multiple "dysfunctions" 

Cheers all!

[Kyle K]

Alan,

I very much appreciate your reviews.  I have had this question running around in my head for a while - if the 2008 Stella SW was still in production would it still be at the top of your list?

Thanks,

Kyle

[johndtuttle]

Thanks very much for that Alan and I honor your trust as well as the technical information that you have kindly shared with myself and well as your other readers.

I of course, stand corrected in specific detail, but maintain that my point was that we should not take the posted incidents as documented proof (for example) that the pinion in the SSV is categorically junk, as some (not yourself) would leap to do, only that it is clear Penn had a problem with at least some of their production as you found and documented and others have found, clearly, in some cases. The problem is that the extent is entirely unknown to us as well as the completeness of resolution (if any).

BTW a contact at Penn shared with me they greatly valued your input and review as your identified issues in the early Torque Spinning made that reel better when pointed out early and corrected.

I hope you can understand in this written post that I am not trying to split hairs, simply point out that some identified failures out of thousands of reels sold do not make a complete picture? I guess I feel that the SSV has been held to a higher standard than other makers who have their share of problems too with their budget offerings, not by yourself, but by the forum-sphere (I just invented that ). Of course, Penn set that bar high themselves with their marketing campaign.

So hard to communicate the entire gist of what I mean...hrm...

You are aware of my scientific background so I hope you appreciate my comments and views as being more of a concern with the Statistical Mean performance rather than the Outlier case. Particularly for budget reels that sell in the thousands. By this I mean to say that reported failures tend to be magnified by the internet as well as success stories relating the miracle landing of a whopper with a budget reel or that people never do anything to their XXX reel and it lasts forever. I take all with a degree of skepticism (they are all anecdotes/outliers in a sense) for what it means for my fishing (generally average needs) and perhaps place more trust in Penn/Shimano/Daiwa etc than I should that they can correct manufacturing problems.

We certainly can expect that one failure posted on the internet means several more failed and were sent back without documentation...just as we can expect that a few posted failures does not represent the entirety of a production of various sizes of a given model etc. But of course where there is smoke there is fire, we just don't know the extent of the issue.

As I final thought I would like to re-emphasize my regard for your honest and documented examples of the shortcomings as well as strong points of the reels you review. Anyone that questions their veracity needs their own head examined or at the very least their motives questioned. You make no claims other than what the reel in your hand can provide by your actual use, documentation and analysis. A great boon to us all.

However, all such information remains only one piece of the puzzle for the consumer and I only hope the early adopters of these products do so with their eyes open that a new introduction commonly has teething issues...They should accept that they themselves are likely some of the first unbiased field testers of actual production regardless of the source of manufacture. It remains a case of "buyer beware" until we have years of success behind us and the company remains viable etc. This should not be interpreted by any reader as remotely a criticism of your work only as a heads up for their own use when they spend their hard earned coin on their new tool.


best regards

[Alan_Hawk]

if the 2008 Stella SW was still in production would it still be at the top of your list?

Indeed Kyle. It would definitely be on top as long as it maintains the same standards of quality and performance. At $950 I kept telling people for about 5 years that it was a great value considering that it was sold for $1300 in Japan, and I believe some thought I was a bit cuckoo :p  This doesn't mean that you should go out and buy them now. They have been discontinued for more than a year and parts will be available for a limited number of years therefore I generally advise against buying out of production reels.

Thanks very much for that Alan

Excellent post as usual and I certainly agree with you. I wish you lived a little closer so I could get you to test reels with me, that's after you swear never to reveal some of the weird stuff you'll see on prototype reels

Penn indeed were great taking note of my review and perfecting the Torque accordingly, and I believe this reel deserves more credit than it generally gets. They don't promote it properly in my opinion.

All the best.

[Alto Mare]

Alan Hawk, what a treat. I hope you'll visit more often.
Thanks for stopping by, Sal

[wallacewt]

x2 thank you sir