Coloured Penn Reels

Started by Superhook, December 20, 2014, 10:58:14 PM

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Superhook

It does look like a "6" until you click on and enlarge . Then you can see it is a "5".

mo65

Yep...it's a "5"...but still...look at those colors! There's even a few green specks...definitely a "swept the floor at quitting time" set of plates!  8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


Shark Hunter

Great find on that reel Mo.
When you get Mike's attention. It is something special.
Life is Good!

Penn Chronology

OH yea! That one fooled me.

Thanks Ray, you are my voice of reason!!! ;)

Superhook

Jeez Mike , me..reason ?  ??? We're both in real trouble.  :o

oc1

#80
Mo, your tail plate has a really nice sunburst pattern.  This could indicate that the injection port for the two-piece mold was in the center where the cast control knob would be later.  

Trying to understand how bakelite is molded I read some articles here:
http://plastiquarian.com/?page_id=14339
https://books.google.com/books/about/American_Plastic.html?id=Nq_BQgAACAAJ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite#Compression_molding

Evidently, the "flash" that squishes out of the seam of the two-piece mold and other fresh waste in the kettle may be reused because it is not yet cured. The aberrant red, green and speckled side plates may have included left-over resin and/or flash from making handle knobs.  The speckles may indicate more flash (that would not completely dissolve) and less virgin resin. The handle knob resin probably didn't have fillers so they would be brighter in color and more translucent.  The side plate resin had black or dark maroon pigment to conceal fillers that add strength.  

There were no blue handle knobs and you very seldom see any vintage blue bakelite because the blue pigments of the day were unstable in bakelite and often turned green.
-steve


Penn Chronology

Quote
Jeez Mike , me..reason ?  Huh? We're both in real trouble.  Shocked


Posted on: July 29, 2016, 09:39:34 PM
Posted by: Penn Chronology 

We sure are; but, it is good trouble..............<:O)

foakes

Quote from: sdlehr on January 14, 2016, 06:33:02 AM
Quote from: basto on January 14, 2016, 12:36:40 AM
Sid is correct.
What would you charge me to teach those words to my wife?

Sid
SE FL

Don't know how much Greg would charge you, Sid...

However, I would pay to see you introduce this matter to your wife.

Good luck with that... ;D ;D ;D

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Tightlines667

Good article Steve.  Interesting explanation about the differences between Catlin, and Bakelite.
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Penn Chronology

QuoteTrying to understand how bakelite is molded I read some articles here:
http://plastiquarian.com/?page_id=14339

Understanding Bakelite can become mind numbing for me. The material had such a wide range of uses, that a thousand books could be written about it. Being a Chemist might help. What frustrates me sometimes is when I read about it, there is hardly ever a reference to the fishing reel industry about it.

Anyways, this particular article was excellent. I am going to save it and use it for reference in the future because I believe it covers what Penn's needs of the material were.

basto

Quote from: oc1 on July 30, 2016, 11:00:22 AM
   

There were no blue handle knobs and you very seldom see any vintage blue bakelite because the blue pigments of the day were unstable in bakelite and often turned green.
-steve



What is it about blue? When I was a young apprentice spraying the back of illuminated signs, perspex, the colour blue was always the most difficult to cover evenly, You had to put a lot more paint on than other colours to get an even look when the sign was lit up.
I have seen Penn reels with blue handles on Etsy.
Basto
DAM Quick 3001      SHIMANO Spedmaster 3   Jigging Master PE5n

mo65

Penn made a blue million(good one mo...hee hee) of the little handles in blue...like the #24-109 and #24-85. I have never seen any others in blue...or a plate...that would be some sight! :o
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


oc1

You notice the plastic in 109 type handles (like the one Fred showed yesterday) do not have the translucence of the torpedo type handles.  I'm just guessing that they have some sort of filler added to make the plastic stronger.  Wood or walnut shell powder perhaps?

Bakelite billiard balls and poker chips are a puzzle.  Bakelite sort of revolutionized billiards because before bakelite billiard balls were made of ivory (high maintenance and very expensive) or celluloid (inferior performance).  Without bakelite there may not have been the pool hall culture of the prohibition era and beyond.  Bakelite billiard balls take a lot of abuse.   They have bright colors but are sort of opaque like the blue reel handles. 

So, why were normal side plates all black or dark maroon and not made with bright colors like billiard balls?  The art deco style of the 1920's was all about bright colors and high contrast.  Side plates were the color of telephones, automobile distributor caps and other electronic and electrical components.  I wonder if side plates required a different kind of resin filler; a filler that also made them heat resistant like a distributor cap or electrical outlet.  Asbestos perhaps?

Heat resistance may not be as important in small reels as in large reels.  It is hard to heat up the drag in a small reel.  Has there ever been an example of an aberrant colored side plate in a Senator or Master Mariner?

I know nothing.  Just wondering.
-steve

mo65

Quote from: oc1 on August 01, 2016, 08:22:58 PM

So, why were normal side plates all black or dark maroon and not made with bright colors like billiard balls?  The art deco style of the 1920's was all about bright colors and high contrast.  Side plates were the color of telephones, automobile distributor caps and other electronic and electrical components.  I wonder if side plates required a different kind of resin filler; a filler that also made them heat resistant like a distributor cap or electrical outlet.  Asbestos perhaps?

-steve

I wonder if black and dark maroon were used simply because they were less expensive to manufacture? 
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


foakes

Over the years, Penn experimented with various systems of reel manufacturing that sometimes involved making most parts on site -- or, many times, parts were sourced from various companies, and produced to the specifications demanded by Penn.

As a rule, most metal parts were manufactured on site in the Philadelphia plant, as well as the sideplates.

Sometimes handles, and particularly knobs, were acquired from other sources -- but manufactured exclusively and under contract for Penn.  Contracts were in place to insure that the parts manufactured were exclusive to Penn.  Same goes for parts such as screws, bushings, springs, drags, etc..

It made more sense (economic and logistical) when using many small repetitive parts -- to outsource these to other companies.  Everyone did this (at least the companies that stayed in business for a longer time) to a point -- Penn, Ford, GM, Chrysler, RCA, GE, and others.

I do not know about sideplates in the old days -- but when touring the Penn plant a couple of months ago with Tony & Tom -- there was a gentleman working on finishing and drilling sideplates that Penn received from one of their off site suppliers.  These were for the US made large Senators -- 116L & 117L (12/0 -- 14/0).

These were black, and appeared to be the same as the older ones -- although I do not know if they were bakelite, or a new modern reinforced plastic resin material.

Just interesting.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.