alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Long range arsenal
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Author Topic: Long range arsenal  (Read 84517 times)
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Alans Buddy
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« on: January 03, 2015, 09:44:37 PM »

What lb classes and how many, rods/reels would you bring on a typical long range trip? Trying to get an idea of equipment I need to amass. If I need too many Penn Torques, I may stick with trout.
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Jon Vadney
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 12:58:37 AM »

This is a question that has a million answers haha.  I'll do my best to give you my opinion about what is essential (minimum), preferred (what most people will bring), and preferred + niche setups.  Also, initially I'll list what type of reels are popular for each type of fishing and what you'll be doing with them.

30# - Whatever reel you want and whatever your budget will allow.  Penn 500 Jigmasters, Accurate 400 or 400N, Trinidad 14, ProGear 255/cs501/albacore special, etc.  Any basic saltwater reel will work here.
40/50# yoyo - Yoyo fishing is where you drop an iron down (usually a Salas 6X or 6X jr) and reel it back to the boat as fast as you can to catch yellowtail. A narrow reel is a must.  Popular choices are the Baja Special, Trinidad 40 (or 40N if you can find one), BX600N, ProGear Yellowtail Special, or if money is of absolutely no object, get an Ocea Jigger 4000P.
40# - live bait setup. Any of the smaller 2speeds will work here.  I find that 40# is where I make the switch to 2 speeds because if I'm using 40# for bait, generally I'm in an area that could produce a 100#+ YFT and I want to have the low gear in case one eats my bait (guadelupe if it ever re-opens, alijos, lower banks, offshore bluefin, etc).  Popular reels are going to be the Talica 12 or 16, Makaira 10 (the 15 sucks, it's too wide), Penn TRQ25NLD2, I'm sure an avet is applicable here but I hate those reels so I refuse to learn their shitty model numbers, Accurate BX600N or NN 2 speed or 500 2 speed.  
40# - Surface Iron. Reel choices are all over the place here.  Without a doubt the most popular reel is going to be the newell s533-5.5.  2nd in popularity is going to be a Trinidad 20.  What I use is a Shimano TLD Star 15/30 that I had Alan trick out.  The reel costs $100 and is PERFECT for YT on the surface iron.  
50# - wahoo bombs.  Ignore gear ratios for a moment, it's all about inches per turn when we are talking about wahoo.  I won't even consider a reel that gets less than 40" per turn for these fish.  These are lures that you want to reel back in as fast as humanly possible, while still having some cranking power once you hook up because with wahoo you don't pump the rod, you just grind them in.  The reason for this is that they have rock hard mouths and any slack caused from the pumping can result in the hook falling out.  Popular reels: Trinidad 40/40N, Accurate DPX2-600ND/NND or DPX2-600ND/NND, Penn Baja Special, ProGear Wahoo Special, Tib SST8
50# - Bait Essentially the same reels at 40# bait because with 40# you are generally backing your reels with 60# hollow or 65# solid spectra, and you can put 40# or 50# topshots onto that with no problem.  I would also add in the Accurate DPX2-600ND, and drop the Talica 12 and Accurate 500 from the list.
60# - Bait 60# is probably the least used line weight there is.  People usually just jump from 50 to 80, but i really like 60# for fish in that 90# - 130# range.  If the 130# fish are eating 100# line, I'd use that but generally speaking that isn't the case.  Popular reels are going to be: Accurate DPX2-600ND or ATD6, Penn TRQ30LD2, Shimano Talica 16 or 20.
80#/100# - Trolling  It really doesn't matter what reel/rod you are using for trolling on any trip shorter than the ultra-longrange trips.  You aren't going to hook a cow tuna while trolling around Alijos or while offshore.  A Penn 6/0 on any rod rated for 80# or 100# will be just fine.  That being said, once you get to the lower zone, your trolling will be done with 100# or 130# and you will want a quality setup as big tuna have been known to eat trolled lures. Any of the live-bait setups I list below for 100#/130# would work fine.
80# - Bait Popular reels: Accurate ATD 12, Penn TRQ40LD, Okuma Makaira 16sea, Penn INTL 20 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 20.
100# - Bait Popular reels: Accurate ATD 12, Accurate ATD 30 topless, Makaira 20sea, Penn INTL 30 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 25
130# - Bait Popular reels: Accurate ATD 30 topless, Makaira 20sea, Penn INTL 30 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 25
150# - big bait/chunk Popular reels: Accurate ATD 50 topless, Makaira 50sea, Penn INTL 50 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 50,
200#-300# kite Popular reels: Accurate ATD50W, ATD80, Makaira 50W, Makaira 80, Penn Intl 50w, 70VSX, or 80 all Cal-Sheets'd out.  The best reel for the kite of all time is a Penn Intl 80T that has gone to Cal's to be 2 speeded, high-high gear and a granny gear (4:1/1.1) installed, and has a Baker 80N frame.  All said and done for this reel is over $2000


Rod choices are all over the place here as well.  I'll give a quick rundown of what I would use from each major manufacturer.  I'm listing blank identifiers as I'm doing all of this off of the top of my head and I know that a lot of companies have a different designation for the completed rod.  Additionally, there are other rods from the manufacturers that I have listed that will work with absolutely no problems at all (the glass variants for instance), but I'm listing the rods that are the most popular and rods that I have first hand experience using.

Calstar:

30# - 700ML or 800ML
40# bait - 700H
40# surface iron - BT90J
40#/50# yoyo - 700H or 765L
50# bomb - 700XH
50# bait - 700XH
60# bait - 765ML
80# bait - 770XH or 765M
100# bait - 770XXH
130# bait - 770XXXH
150#+ - 770XXXXH

Seeker (I'm on the Seeker pro staff so they are my preferred brand):

30# - CJBF70M or CJBF80M
40# bait - CJBF70
40# surface iron - ULUA93H
40#/50# yoyo - CJBF70H or CJBF65H
50# bomb - CJBF70H
50# bait - CJBF70H or CJBF645XH
60# bait - CJBF70XH
80# bait - SS-1X3 or CTSF63XXH
100# bait - SS-2X4, OSP2x4 or CTSF63XXXH
130# bait - OSP 3x or CTSF63XXXXH
150# + - SS-3X5, OSP 4x

United Composites
30# - US 78 Mega
40# bait - US 70 Monster
40# surface iron - US 100 Monster
40#/50# yoyo - US 70 Monster or US 65HP
50# bomb - US 70 Wahoo JR
50# bait - US 70 Wahoo JR or US 65XXOS
60# bait - US 70 Predator
80# bait - CX 70 Raptor
100# bait - CX 70 Viper
130# bait - CX 70 Invictus
150#+ - CX 70 Gladiator

Phenix
30# - PHD-838MH-B
40# bait - PHD-760H-B
40#/50# yoyo - PHD-700XH-B or PHD-660XH-B
40# surface iron - PHD-929H-B
50# bomb - PHD-700XH-B or PHD-760XH-B or PHD-869XH-B
50# bait - PHD-700XH-B
60# bait - PHD-700XH-B
80# bait - PHD-700X2H-B
100# bait - PHD-700X3H-B
130# bait - PHD-700X3H-B
150#+ - PHD-700X4H-B

3-6 Day
Minimum
30# bait
40# bait
40/50# 2 speed (what I mean by 40/50 is a setup that could be used for either)
This is the bare minimum and you will be using the boats gear for trolling and the dropper loop if Those techniques are done on your trip

Preferred
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing or bait
40# bait
50# bait
60# bait/dropper loop
Boats trolling gear

Preferred +
20#/25# bait
30# bait
40# single speed star drag for surface iron
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing or bait
40# bait
40# bait
50# bait
60# bait/dropper loop
80# or 100# (trolling)

7 - 10 Day
Minimum
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing
40# bait
50# bait
50# single or 2 speed for bombs

Preferred
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing.
40# single speed star drag for surface iron
40# bait
40# bait
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
50# bait
60# bait/dropper loop
Boats trolling gear

Preferred +
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing.
40# single speed star drag for surface iron
40# bait
40# bait
50# bombs
50# bait
60# bait
80# bait/dropper loop
100# or 130# bait/troll

Longer than 10 (cow tuna fishing)

Minimum
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
80# bait
100# bait
130# bait
Boat's kite gear

Preferred
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
50# single or 2 speed for wahoo iron
80# bait
100# bait
100# bait
130# bait
130# bait
Boat's kite gear

Preferred +
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
50# single or 2 speed for wahoo iron
80# bait
100# bait
100# bait
130# bait
130# bait
130# 50 sized reel with high speed gears for jig fishing cow tuna
150# big bait/chunk
200#-300# kite

After you get the essentials for whatever length trip you want, then you can start to throw in some of the fun setups like a popping rod, waxwing rod, vertical jigging rod, etc.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 02:48:09 AM by Jon Vadney » Logged
conchydong
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 04:39:53 AM »

Wow, what a great post Jon. Very informative.

 Alan or another administrator, could you save this info as a sticky somewhere so this post will be easy to find again?
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BMITCH
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Bob


« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 07:19:02 AM »

Jon, what a great post. Some of these recommendations also apply to our NE canyon head boat fishing. Most are only 24 to 48 hours but the jigging and bait rods/reels will also apply. Thanks for such a detailed reply.
Bob
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Alans Buddy
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 10:28:16 AM »

Damn Jon. Thanks for the info! I'll have to sift through it. Crazy!
No wonder Alan's garage looks like it does, especially with redundancy and never not having what you need.
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 10:55:07 AM »

I can't really add to Jon's fine post other than just some general comments.

You can make long range as simple or as complicated as you want to with most of the trips from 3-8 days targeting a wide variety of species that will still succumb to very simple techniques (typically because the fishing is so good).

The Key Rig is always a quality setup for fishing "40lb" live bait leader as 95% of the fish landed fall into the "schoolie" category of 20-40lbs with fish over 100lbs being less than 5% of the catch.

The basic "40lb" rig has for years been a simple star drag reel making 15-18lbs of drag.

You can fish live bait leaders from 15-100lbs on this rig. You can fish iron on the bottom or surface for Wahoo or Yellowtail. You can fish the "dropper loop" (weighted live bait on the bottom) with it too. Basically, it can do it all.

I like a Penn Torque or Fathom 25N spooled with 50lb braid on a 7' stick rated 20-50. This will land 95%+ of the fish and can truly do it all because it is a superior caster of surface iron or live bait as compared to any Lever Drag reel. It is also simpler and more reliable over time.

Essentially it is a rig built around a 3/0 size quality star drag reel. There is no better all around reel for anything in saltwater from Alaska to Panama for the majority of the catch encountered and the basic techniques used.

Everything else is just gravy, nicer for a specific application, little heavier or lighter, little longer or shorter, little faster or slower, little more cranking power etc etc but not at all required to land tonnage.

Master this "40lb" 3/0 Star Drag rig and you will feel very comfortable on any fishing boat on the West Coast of North America short of true dedicated Cow fishing.


best


« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 04:53:41 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
alantani
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 12:06:29 PM »

my contribution to this post?  um, yeah, stickied......   Grin
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Alans Buddy
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 12:28:06 PM »

Thanks for that advice John. I was hoping that I could start with one good quality all around setup and go from there. I'll be heading to the ISE to check some of this year out.
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2015, 01:56:12 PM »

SOLID post man! Great work!
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 02:05:30 PM »

Nice write up, I thought I had enough gear Roll Eyes Grin.
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2015, 02:55:53 PM »

I did a 10 day in early Oct '14 on the Excel.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker G6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 04:10:38 PM by MarkT » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2015, 03:50:47 PM »

I'm going to show this to my fiance and just say "I told you I needed more gear!"  Grin
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Dominick
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2015, 04:01:25 PM »

I did a 10 day in early Oct '14.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker 6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.

Something wrong here, I don't see the word Penn anywhere. Cheesy Dominick
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alantani
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 04:01:49 PM »

she's going to tell you to get a new hobby.  don't be surprised when you get a set of knitting needles for you birthday!
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 04:11:56 PM »

I did a 10 day in early Oct '14.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker 6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.

Something wrong here, I don't see the word Penn anywhere. Cheesy Dominick
A 501,4/0 and 6/0 will do just as good and let you keep $6,000 in your pocket Wink Grin
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Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
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