cutting a bearing sleeve

[alantani]

something new that i've been doing, starting in the summer of 2008, is cutting bearing sleeves.  i've been buying thin walled brass tubing from the local hobby shop and cutting them down to fit in between the bearings.  the increased freespool has been dramatic.  here's the tubing needed for the penn international 30sw





the whole process is relatively simple.  i get a quick measurement of the length needed and cut it with a tubing cutter. 





then i re-measure the lengh and mark the amount of metal that needs to come off.



the sleeve is then placed in the chuck of the drill press.  even a hand held drill with a half inch chuck would work.



a standard mill bastard file will shave off 5 to 10 thousanths of an inch with every stroke, depending on how sharp the file is and how hard you lean on it.  after a few tries, you will get the feel for it.  plan on having to do this a few times before you get it right.



ideally, you want zero load and zero endplay.  actually, if you cut it too short, you may as well start over because the bearing sleeve will not work at all.  if it's too long, the spool can move around while in free and you may note that the spool stops when you roll it to the right.  you want to be right on the money, or not more than 10 thousanths long.  this one was perfect.  with just the bearings and sleeve in place, you should be able to push in on one bearing and feel just the slightest amount of pressure on the other.  it you can push in on one bearing and actually MOVE the other bearing completely, the sleeve is way too long. 





here is what the spool shaft assembly looks like with the bearing sleeve in place.



to check the function of the bearings and bearing sleeve, first place the spool shaft assembly in the spool and give it a spin.  you should get about 30 seconds of freespool.



now place the drive plate (key #117) on, press only half way to put pressure on the left side bearing spring (key #41) and spin it again.  if you get the same amount of freespool, then you know that there is no axial load on the bearings and it works.  again, make sure the bearing sleeve is not too long. 

[alantani]

Alan, I'm wondering what made you start making those bearing sleeves?  They sound easy enough to make but what is their purpose or what are the advantages to having one on your reel?  I could see using them if the spool shaft diameter was too small to fit snugly to the bearings but I would think that they would be machined just right.  I don't know!! Or am I on the wrong page all together?   
Thanks for your time

without the bearings sleeves, the drag pressure plate puts too much pressure on the inner races of the spool bearings. this axial load binds up the bearings and can dramatically decrease the freespool (spin) time.

[alantani]

anyway, cal sheets is the one that actually coined the term, "blue printing." the actual blue printing procedure involves several different steps, all expensive and time consuming. what he does is machine down the drag plate to make it perfectly true. that's step one. then, a piece of heavy stainless steel tubing is turned on a lathe to make a bearing sleeve. it's accurate down the a few thousanths of an inch. i'm lucky to get it within 10 to 20 thousanths. then he uses a combination of belleville spring washers to give you the exact drag range that you specify. this is not so much science as it is art! want 22 pounds of drag? he will set it up so that you get a smooth progression to 22 pounds. want 25, 30 or 33 and a half? he can do that, too. i have only the extra stock bellevilles and some stainless steel ones that i hobble together. i can add an extra one or fiddle with the orientation and that's it. mostly, i'm looking at bumping up the drag range from 20 pounds to 30 or 35. it's sort of a hack job, but it actually does work! the down side of that kind of drag range is that you are "full on" as soon as you inch that lever forward. there is no smooth progression. it's off or on, nothing in between.

so, joel, with the reel that you just saw, the guy that owned the reel wanted about 30#'s because he was going to try to land a big shark. if he decides he does not like the way the drag ramps up, it is very easy to change back. now, when you asked if he requested to not have the reel serviced in it's entirety, there is really not much else that would be left to do. the drag plate was fine. it usually doesn't travel very far because it's got no place to go. the right main side plate bearing was also ok and really needed only a little more grease. the purpose is to eliminate the air spaces that can hold water and make the bearing rust. i guess i could have opened up the cam, but i usually just leave that be unless there is a problem. if you want to service that, it's straight in and out to add a little grease only.

hmm, i think that's everything. so if you want the ultimate in performance, absolutely go to cal sheets. if you want to squeeze out a little more performance and stay within budget, consider doing the work yourself. i just checked and saw that cal will blueprint a reel for $95. for the work that is done, that's a bargain. i actually called them a couple of years ago and they told me that they would cut a bearing sleeve for $25 if i just send them the spool, bearings and drive shaft. hope this clears things up. thanks! alan

[alantani]

As usual, extensive and full of needed details.  Question, though.  HOW did you determine that the spool sleeve was too long, and how did you determine the amount to shave off of it to make it the correct length? 

ideally you want zero load and zero freeplay.

looking at the two spool bearings, they are designed to support a vertical load, like the load you would get from a fish pulling on the line with 30 pounds of drag. ball bearings are designed to support a vertical load and do a great job. what they do not do well is to support an axial load. that is pressure along the axis of spool shaft. imagine too much pressure being placed on the inner races of the bearings. that would slow down the free spinning ability of the bearing because it is not designed to support an axial load. it you could place a "sleeve" in between the two bearings, then the inner races of these bearings would be supported by the sleeve and there would be no axial pressure transmitted against the balls or the races.

so the sleeve has to be the exact length or longer to support the inner races. if it's too short, then it provides no support at all and you may as well remove it. but what if it's too long? it will still support the inner races of the bearing and the bearings will still spin freely. the problem is that the spool will slide back and forth on the bearings. when the reel is together, what you see is that the spool will spin freely when the reel is level or tilted to the left, but it will stop when you tilt the reel to the right because the spool "shifts" and will come in contact with the pressure plate. the shimano tld's actually have a couple of c-clips on the drive shaft that function as a bearing sleeve. they are also cut too long and this is commonly seen in every shimano tld lever drag reel.

to determine the proper length of the bearing sleeve, you can measure it with fancier equipment than i would have available, or you could place the bearing sleeve inside the spool, then push both bearings into place with no spool shaft, and wiggle the bearings back and forth along the axis to see if you can push one bearing in and have the bearing sleeve push the other one out. at some point, you will get it shaved down so that you can put a little pressure one one bearing and just barely feel the pressure on the other one. remember that the thickness of a piece of paper is about 3 thousanths of an inch thick and you want to amount of play to be the thickness of 1 or 2 pieces of paper. if you've shaved it down possibly too much, you can still test it by installing the spool shaft and spinning the spool. with no axial load, it should spin great. then press in on both bearings with springs and watch visually to see if the spool slows down at all. if it works, it works. congratulations, you somehow managed to cut the bearing down to zero to one thousanths of an inch over. if it slows down, then you've cut it down too much and you have to start over or add a shim washer inside.

when it comes to maintaining freespool, this is the way to go.  alan

[alantani]

The question I have is on my TLD 15. Decided to leave the bellevilles/spacers alone for now (glad I did-fewer variables to troubleshoot my problem). Degreased and oiled the 2 spool and 1 drag plate bearings (they were open).  Changed the drag washer to greased Carbontex. The only other thing I did was some 1200 grit polishing on the inside of the pinion gear and the spool shaft where the pinion rides - saw that on a thread on Bloody Decks you were part of. The drag feels great and the freespool is up to 35-40 seconds with 10# strike setting. The issue is I noticed when checking freespool that tilting the reel 45* to the right (like a right-handed caster would) causes the spool to stop in seconds (even when it's hauling #### at the start).  Tilting to the left does nothing (might even help a little).  I've got a TLD 20 single-speed that's never been apart, and tilting it left or right during freespool has no effect on it. I've used your site and the drawing to check my reassembly 3 times. Have you ever heard of this?  Any suggestions? Should I be concerned?

yeah, this "tilting to the right and stopping" business is found in any reel with a bearing sleeve that is cut too long.  the "c-clip" on the spool shaft that sits next to the right spool bearing functions as a bearing sleeve and it is "too long."  to fix it, you either need to shim the bearing cup or remove the c-clip and cut a bearing sleeve to fit.  as for the pinion gear, don't bother polishing it.  it actually does not affect freespool.  alan

[alantani]

I decided to try the Extreme Reel + lube on a MXJ.  With the reel fully assembled I had about 10 seconds of freespool.  The 10 seconds was with the reel being torn down and the bearings cleaned with carb cleaner then lubed with Corrision X and reassembled.

Then I ordered the Extreme Reel; it came in tonight.  I took the reel apart and cleaned the spool bearings and the brake bearing with carb cleaner and blew them out with compressed air then lubed with Extreme Reel +.

With the right side plate and spool assembled but not installed in the main housing I got just a little better than 2 minutes of freespool.  When I assembled the right side plate with the spool in the main housing I only get about 15 seconds of freespool.  It also sounds like something might be rubbing (the sound is ever so slight).  Looking at the right side plate with spool assembly; the only thing that can be rubbing is the plastic clicker gear on the left side of the spool.

Unfortunately I didn't check the freespool with the Corrision X in the bearings with the main housing not installed.

Any thoughts?  Has anyone ever had to sand down the clicker gear? 

Thanks in advance for any replys.

on some of the avets that i've worked on, the bearing sleeve was cut short ever so slightly.  try this....  pull the spool out again and give it a spin with lateral/axial pressure on the bearings.  now install just the spring and pinion gear.  use the pinion gear to press in on the spring.  the spring will put lateral/axial load on the spool bearings.  if the bearing sleeve is the proper length, there will be no load on the bearings and the spool will spin continuously and unchanged.  if the bearing sleeve is to short, the spin velocity will immediately slow down when you push on the bearing.

along those lines, the "rough" sound might be from the tiny right spool bearing under a load.  it's a small bearing any amount of corrosion can have a profound effect on performance.  can you let us know?  thanks!  alan

[alantani]

accusleeves - 9/1/2010

a question was asked on bloody decks about sleeving the bearings of accurate reels. 

http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/accurate-fishing-adventures/265718-freespool-sleeve.html

it's really pretty simple.  here's the post that describes the general process. 

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=138.0

i've actually sleeved all of my own personal accurates.  the freespool really is very nice.  perhaps one of the best things about accurate reels is that the tolerances are so tight.  you could measure out a sleeve for any single reel, knock out another hundred sleeves, and pretty much be right on the money for all of the rest.  that's how well made the accurate reel is.  so my friend jim cut a few sleeves for me.   he set them up so that they are 3-4 thousanths too long.  remember that a piece of paper is 3 thousanths of an inch thick. 



a black and gray single speed boss 270 was send in with really bad freespool.  i pulled the spool and gave it a spin with no load on the bearings.  i got 15 seconds of freespool.



then i pushed in on the spring and put a load on the bearings and got 6 seconds of freespool. 



i pulled the bearings out, and remove the shields. 





then i cleaned the bearings with carb cleaner and compressed air.  the new lube i'm using is TSI 301.  very impressive stuff.  the spin times are not as good as xtreme reel +, but it lasts much longer. 



i put the spool back together with the newly cleaned and lubed bearings and gave the spool a spin.  with no load on the bearings, i got 70 seconds of spin time. 



then i pressed in on the pressure plate to compress the springs a little and the spin time dropped to 10 seconds.  yup, that's 10 seconds under a load with bearings that had just been cleaned and lubed. 



well, let's try a bearing sleeve.  here's the one that jim cut for me, based on measurements from another reel.  when i put it all together, you could feel just a slight amount of play that indicated that the sleeve was in fact a few thousanths too long. 



here is what the whole assembly will look like when you're done. 



i gave the spool a spin without putting a load on the bearings.  things must be loosening up, because i got 80 seconds worth of spin. 



then i put a load on the springs and the freespool time was 75 seconds, virtually unchanged. 



but the proof is in the pudding.  i reassembled the reel and gave the spool a spin.  yup, 80 seconds of freespool!



now for the disclaimer.  this is only one reel.  to come up with any kind of solid conclusions, we would need a hundred reels and a plan to systematically eliminate variables.  yeah, like i've got time to something like that.  so it looks good, but no one is going to do the study to determine if these differences are statistically significant.  if you try this at home, your results may vary.  or not........

[alantani]

so it looks like these should be 1-2 thousanths over.  remember that an average sheet of paper is 3 thousanths of an inch thick.     alan

[Norcal Pescador]

Alan, or anyone -
Do the bearing sleeves need to be custom made for every spool or will one cut for my Int'l 50 work on any Int'l 50?

[Bryan Young]

It's a matter of manufacturing tolerances.

We do know that Accurates have very tight machining tolerances, and will probably work.  We have not investigated other reels though.  Give it a try and let us know.

[Norcal Pescador]

I just needed one for my original Int'l 50. I lucked out and had some brass tubing that matched the inner race perfectly and made one. I wasn't thinking about making more than one. 

[alantani]

reel to reel, they should all be pretty close!

[johndtuttle]

Alan or Bryan,

If spool bearing sleeves are such a good idea it seems an incredibly easy part to add to existing designs. Any idear why the actual manufacturers neglect to add this part to their base design?

Surely the cost/weight is minimal on reels costing as much as $1000???

best

[Bryan Young]

Probably the most resistance is knowledge and pride.   Acknowledging that your competitor knows more than you. 

Some believe that does not add value to the performance of the reel.  And while other, like Shimano, that uses a oil filled piston that adjusts the drag limits based on heat.  A sleeve will defeat this feature.

[Seachaser]

ABU guys call this a speed bushing.  You can make them from used brass cartridges.  If you are a reloader, you probably have a bunch of used brass laying around.