alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Rainshadow SUR 1569F--Spiders & Dragons
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Rainshadow SUR 1569F--Spiders & Dragons  (Read 26615 times)
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cbar45
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2016, 03:29:55 AM »

Thanks all, I will post more photos once completed..

NewellNut-
Colors red and titanium sound like an awesome combination! I also like garnet/copper, chestnut/gold, and orange/silver..

Sid-
That pattern is known as a "spider" wrap in Dale Clemen's book Custom Rod Thread Art (shown)...Without getting too technical, the outside "box" threads are what forms the background...If each thread making up the box is the same color, you will get a solid background...But, if you alternate between two different colors (on wraps of 4 axes or more), the end result will be a checkerboard background--so long your initial layout is accurate..










« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:15:37 AM by cbar45 » Logged
Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 04:45:27 AM »

Love it Smiley I wish I had the patience for something like that Sad
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bluefish69
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2016, 08:41:11 AM »

Chad

A friend has a book on wraps on the market & he is doing classes up & down the coast. Billy Varona is his name. Besides wrapping rods he does Inlays in Eva Grips. The one he did for me was Cross Ridgid Pipe Wrenches.

Mike

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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2016, 10:06:39 AM »

Mike, I've seen Billy Varona's name somewhere - I think the NERBS (North East Rod BuilderS)

Chad, now that I see a closeup I have a better idea. Do you wrap one thread at a time, or 3 at once for the background colors? Very nice work!

Sid
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Sid Lehr
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2016, 10:27:11 AM »

You sir, are an artist, and that is gorgeous!
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Reel 224
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2016, 11:58:04 AM »

I'm going to try my hand with that pattern. Wish me luck Wink

Joe
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2016, 02:12:33 PM »

I'm going to try my hand with that pattern. Wish me luck Wink

Joe

Joe...

Good Luck!

Would love to see some pics of your marking and wrapping stages, for those of us new to the rod wrapping game.
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2016, 02:23:47 PM »

Yes Sid that's the same person. If you check his site he might be doing a class or 2 in Fla. this year.

Mike
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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2016, 06:44:21 PM »

I'm going to try my hand with that pattern. Wish me luck Wink

Joe

Joe...

Good Luck!

Would love to see some pics of your marking and wrapping stages, for those of us new to the rod wrapping game.

I'm new to rod wrapping also, but I'm willing to try.

Joe
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cbar45
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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2016, 06:54:47 PM »

Chad

A friend has a book on wraps on the market & he is doing classes up & down the coast. Billy Varona is his name. Besides wrapping rods he does Inlays in Eva Grips. The one he did for me was Cross Ridgid Pipe Wrenches.

Mike



Hey Mike,
I actually purchased the madeira thread used in this wrap from Billy V of Northeast Rod Builders...I don't have his book, but believe I saw a photo of the inlays he did for you on one of the other rodbuilding/fishing forums, probably stripersonline...Very nice work!...Wish I could attend one of the NERBS gatherings, but seeing as how I'm 4500 miles away it won't be any time soon..

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cbar45
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2016, 07:02:14 PM »

Mike, I've seen Billy Varona's name somewhere - I think the NERBS (North East Rod BuilderS)

Chad, now that I see a closeup I have a better idea. Do you wrap one thread at a time, or 3 at once for the background colors? Very nice work!

Sid
SE FL

Sid,

For the background I wrap in bands of 2-6 threads at a time, depending on how many threads the current pass requires...In general it's easier to make adjustments wrapping in bands, but the more thread you use per band, the more jagged the centerline will end up looking...On simple open diamonds/chevrons I might do one thread at a time for that super-clean look, but don't have the laser-like focus to do so on closed wraps--especially when it's a large diameter surf blank...ouch Wink

I'm going to try my hand with that pattern. Wish me luck Wink

Joe

Joe, good luck...Just starting off at this--and to paraphrase one of my teachers--the best advice I received is to wrap like crap...Seriously, once I accepted that every thread wasn't going to fall into place perfectly and that the end result probably won't look like the picture in the book, it became easier to focus on HOW the wrap is put together rather than what it looks like...It gets better after that...Anyway let me know if you have any questions on layout, wrapping sequence, etc...I'm not a pro, but will do my best to answer..
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 04:08:12 AM by cbar45 » Logged
sdlehr
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2016, 08:20:29 PM »

the more thread you use per band, the more jagged the centerline will end up looking...
Yup, I saw that and that's why I asked... I've done a few spiral wraps, a few weaves, and it takes patience, time, regular breaks, and some good tunes playing in the background.... I've spent a few days (in spurts) on a weave before. I like wrapping bands of 2-5 or 6 threads at a time, it can make a 4-hr wrap into a 2-hr wrap, but whether to do that or not depends on the pattern as you said. In some you can get away with more than others, especially open wraps.
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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2016, 06:30:00 AM »

Mike, I've seen Billy Varona's name somewhere - I think the NERBS (North East Rod BuilderS)

Chad, now that I see a closeup I have a better idea. Do you wrap one thread at a time, or 3 at once for the background colors? Very nice work!

Sid
SE FL

Sid,

For the background I wrap in bands of 2-6 threads at a time, depending on how many threads the current pass requires...In general it's easier to make adjustments wrapping in bands, but the more thread you use per band, the more jagged the centerline will end up looking...On simple open diamonds/chevrons I might do one thread at a time for that super-clean look, but don't have the laser-like focus to do so on closed wraps--especially when it's a large diameter surf blank...ouch Wink

I'm going to try my hand with that pattern. Wish me luck Wink

Joe

Joe, good luck...Just starting off at this--and to paraphrase one of my teachers--the best advice I received is to wrap like crap...Seriously, once I accepted that every thread wasn't going to fall into place perfectly and that the end result probably won't look like the picture in the book, it became easier to focus on HOW the wrap is put together rather than what it looks like...It gets better after that...Anyway let me know if you have any questions on layout, wrapping sequence, etc...I'm not a pro, but will do my best to answer..

I could use help on the layout and how you pull each color if that makes sense. Or what book that it came from so I could purchase it. I'm sure there are other steps that I'm missing or don't understand on the sequence of threads to lay out. I'm green as the grass when it comes to this sort of wrap.

Joe   
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 06:31:25 AM by Reel 224 » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2016, 12:56:03 PM »

Joe, find yourself a couple or three YouTube videos on spiral wraps and you'll see how it's done. It's much easier seen than explained in writing. I could explain what I do, but not sure it would be understandable by anyone but myself. It's not hard, it's just got to start off precisely. You have to mark 180 degrees on the rod, measure out the spacing on both axes, and if there's a significant taper to the rod that will affect the final outcome as well; it can be corrected for, but it's not easy to explain in words.

Sid
SE FL
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 12:58:19 PM by sdlehr » Logged

Sid Lehr
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cbar45
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« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2016, 02:38:22 AM »

I'm going to try my hand with that pattern. Wish me luck Wink

I could use help on the layout and how you pull each color if that makes sense. Or what book that it came from so I could purchase it. I'm sure there are other steps that I'm missing or don't understand on the sequence of threads to lay out. I'm green as the grass when it comes to this sort of wrap.

Joe    


Joe, find yourself a couple or three YouTube videos on spiral wraps and you'll see how it's done. It's much easier seen than explained in writing. I could explain what I do, but not sure it would be understandable by anyone but myself. It's not hard, it's just got to start off precisely. You have to mark 180 degrees on the rod, measure out the spacing on both axes, and if there's a significant taper to the rod that will affect the final outcome as well; it can be corrected for, but it's not easy to explain in words.

Sid
SE FL

Very true, much depends upon one's learning style...I don't know about youtube videos/tutorials, but I can speak for rodbuilding books having taught myself largely using that method of learning...Dale Clemen's three books are:

1. Fiberglass Rod-Making
2. Advanced Custom Rod Building (If you only had time for one Clemens book, this would be it imho)
3. Custom Rod Thread Art (This is the book that contains the "spider" pattern I posted)



Two other books that may be of interest are:

1. Rod Building Guide by Tom Kirkman
(A great introductory book that covers all the bases for those just starting out).
Tom is also editor of Rodmaker Magazine:



2. Decorative Wraps by Billy Vivona
(Dedicated entirely to crosswraps, I believe the "spider" pattern is also in this book...It helps to have a working understanding of basic layout and the terminology used in crosswraps before purchasing Billy's book).

Regarding layout, you will need to learn something called "Taper Offset Layout" which is what Sid described...What this does is space each cross-over point in accord with the rod blank's taper, allowing the pattern to fit almost perfectly...i.e. If you attempt to close a wrap without using TOS, you'll find that the thinner section closer to the tip will be fully covered by thread, while the wider section near the butt will still have parts of the blank peeking through..TOS is not so critical with open wraps like diamonds and chevrons, but a must for closed wraps..

Thread sequence refers to the manner in which the thread gets wrapped onto the blank...It can be thought of as a list of steps that you repeat over and over again until the pattern is complete...One completed cycle of the thread sequence up and down the blank is known as a "pass"...For example, the sequence of a "spider" pattern is:

1. Cross-Out
(Bands of thread are wrapped on each side of the center "x" such that it builds outwards)

2. Box-Out, Plus one
(Bands of thread are wrapped on each side of the outer "box" such that it builds outwards)
"Plus one" refers to the fact that you will be adding a single thread to every band each successive "pass"..

So to summarize, for someone just starting out and wanting to do a "spider" wrap, their progress might look something like this:

1. Learn the terminology of crosswraps and how it is applied.
2. Learn how to layout a simple open diamond/chevron wrap, then progress on to learning "taper offset" layout.
3. Layout the initial threads for a "spider" pattern and wrap its thread sequence until completed.

Hope this helps,
Chad

PS,
I am not affiliated with any of the above-mentioned authors or publications, they are simply avenues of learning which were--and still are--of help to me when it comes to building fishing rods..

Both Tom and Billy's books are in current publication and can be purchased from most of the vendors that supply rodbuilding components, or you can purchase Billy's book directly from him at xlrods@yahoo.com..

I believe some--if not all--of Clemen's books are out of print, but they can be still be found in some local libraries...They also show up quite often for sale on ebay which is how I obtained my copies..








« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 03:18:46 AM by cbar45 » Logged
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