Fin Nor LT 100

Started by Shark Hunter, February 25, 2016, 02:04:11 PM

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Alto Mare

#45
Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 12, 2016, 01:49:49 PM


That right there would be enough for me to steer clear :-\

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

johndtuttle

Yea, that's not the only one that has broken. Fin Nor keeps it hushed up (deleting photos posted to their Facebook page).

The Quantum Cabo is essentially the identical reel design inside the main gear box (albeit with some different gear material choices) but chose to use way more meat in the stem to prevent breakage:



The whole Cabo 100/120 vs Fin Nor Lethal 100 (both produced by Zebco in the same factory) is an interesting story. Hard to imagine why one reel sells around $120 and the other around $250....Maybe someone can explain that for us because looking at the reels they are very similar inside and out.

It will be interesting to see how the Lethal 100 goes forward if the stem/handle issues get sorted and then what the price is...

Will be interested to see the line lay Shark Hunter, its been a problem for some (bottom heavy stacking due to wrong spec/manfacturing error on the main shaft).

Alto Mare

It's a shame, it is a nice reel on the inside. This happening is not a bad thing, but when the manufacturer tries to hide it, that's another story.
They should jump on it and make it right.
Here is what I think and this is only my opinion:
I don't believe the material used is bad, from what I see, it is just a cause of a bad design.
There is no way any reel would hold up if the base of the stem was attached only 50%.
It is however an easy fix, all the need to do is to keep the top of the housing where the stem gets attached solid.

This is actually the first time that I've seen such design :-\.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

johndtuttle

#48
Yes, if you are going to save weight you have to have very, very modest drags to go with them.

If you look at Shimano in the Stradic/Sustain etc and Penn in the Clash they keep the drags modest so they can safely lighten the frame. That is sensible.

But, yea Sal, new molds for the Frame is not necessarily a simple fix but really is needed.

This design for a reel with a drag that can produce 50lbs of drag (a ridiculous number for a budget reel) is too light. They are better off putting another ounce or two back into the frame (and handle) to balance the concept.


Wolli

Hi Sal, ist this a shame?
My friend who is living on Cape Verde Islands send me his Stella 18000SW-A for service.
Notice what happened and never seen before. All six screws sheared off during fight with a big fish.
Wait and see if Shimano will replace the main and pinion gear free of charge

Wolli
love jigging    www.jupiter-sunrise-lodge.com/de/
Authorized Jigging Master Service Partner (in Germany)

johndtuttle

Quote from: Wolli on March 12, 2016, 08:39:15 PM
Hi Sal, ist this a shame?
My friend who is living on Cape Verde Islands send me his Stella 18000SW-A for service.
Notice what happened and never seen before. All six screws sheared off during fight with a big fish.
Wait and see if Shimano will replace the main and pinion gear free of charge

Wolli

I don't know whether to laugh, cry or cheer!  ???

Reel and gears were strong enough to cause that...or that it happened.

wow... :-\

Alto Mare

Wow is right. It would take a lot of force for that to happen, I'm thinking bad screws or maybe the hole wasn't properly drilled  to size :-\.
Is that drilled flange flat at the base or does it have some type of post that interlock with the gear for added protection?
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

johndtuttle

#52
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 12, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
Wow is right. It would take a lot of force for that to happen, I'm thinking bad screws or maybe the hole wasn't properly drilled  to size :-\.
Is that drilled flange flat at the base or does it have some type of post that interlock with the gear for added protection?


Honestly, I wonder if there is more to the story...

Those screws are typically loctite held...I could see someone shearing them off trying to remove them, particularly if not properly hardened....but hard to imagine the gears are not damaged if the force was enough to shear them in some kind of fishing use?

foakes

Yep,

John and Sal are right -- more to this puzzle than meets the eye.

Those screws do not come apart like that -- if tight -- or if not over torqued when removing.

Plus, likely the gear would damage before all of those screws would sheer off.

Believe this is close to a $1300 reel.

As for the LT-100 frame stem breaking -- there is a lot of drag pressure on this reel due to the 7 drag stack producing such high numbers.  Things happen -- and many folks do not understand the physics and dynamics of the interaction between a good rod, heavy fish, and large drag number reel.

Sometimes better to keep the drag a little under max -- and let the rod do the work-- along with the angler -- and on the down stroke of the pump-n-crank fighting cycle -- use the reel to do what it does best -- retrieve line.

Then I might contact Tom at Cortez -- and have him design some sort of SS 2 part screw together sleeve to go over the stand stem, and rear part of the body -- thus becoming a reinforcing sleeve brace.

If it cost $100 -- that would still only be a $200 reel compared to $1300.

Just my initial thoughts and opinion.

Best,

Fred


The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

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Three se7ens

A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa? 

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

johndtuttle

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 04:27:09 AM
A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa? 

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Only one if it ruins a trip offshore!  We all know how expensive that is.  ;)

Hard to say for certain that it is a design flaw or just casting error/batch problem but this is certainly not the first I have seen/heard of broken.

More power to the guys that want to make it work. If Penn or Shimano etc had this problem we would see a quick and public fix.

Three se7ens

#56
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 13, 2016, 04:44:09 AM
Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 04:27:09 AM
A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa?  

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Only one if it ruins a trip offshore!  We all know how expensive that is.  ;)

Hard to say for certain that it is a design flaw or just casting error/batch problem but this is certainly not the first I have seen/heard of broken.


More power to the guys that want to make it work. If Penn or Shimano etc had this problem we would see a quick and public fix.


Part of me still feels like thats a smear campaign against fin nor for putting out a reel that ourperforms most reels that costs 3 times as much.  But that being said, I also question the quality control of a cast frame that Zebco can sell as a replacement part for $10. 

At the end of the day, I think the failure ratio isnt very high given the number sold.  It has a special place in the market, and its bringing a true heavy duty spinning reel down to a price point that few cannot justify.  Not everyone targets fish that can routinely put 35+ lbs of drag pressure on a reel on a regular basis.  The guys that do can easily justify a high dollar reel that will survive time after time against that.  But if you have a budget, and only get offshore a couple of times a year, its not so easy to justify a stella or saltiga, even if you risk breaking stuff. 

Alto Mare

All I will say is, having replacement parts that are very affordable doesn't justify failure.
The users could very well be responsible for that particular failure, but I personally think it's related to the design, it just doesn't make sense to me.
30# on a spinner isn't the same as 30# on a conventional. Still, there is lots of pressure generated at the base of the stem, add a little twisting and that's what you'll get.

John, you're right about not being an easy fix, I meant easy in the way of pinpointing the problem.
Another fix would be to lower the drag #'s by installing spacers in the stack or changing the inner side of the  spool .
I'm no engineer and I'm not bashing Fin Nor, just giving my opinion for what it's worth.
I'm sure they're watching, so maybe they gather everyone's opinion and take it from there. :-\

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

johndtuttle

#58
Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 05:01:16 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 13, 2016, 04:44:09 AM
Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 04:27:09 AM
A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa? 

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Only one if it ruins a trip offshore!  We all know how expensive that is.  ;)

Hard to say for certain that it is a design flaw or just casting error/batch problem but this is certainly not the first I have seen/heard of broken.


More power to the guys that want to make it work. If Penn or Shimano etc had this problem we would see a quick and public fix.


Part of me still feels like thats a smear campaign against fin nor for putting out a reel that ourperforms most reels that costs 3 times as much.  But that being said, I also question the quality control of a cast frame that Zebco can sell as a replacement part for $10. 

At the end of the day, I think the failure ratio isnt very high given the number sold.  It has a special place in the market, and its bringing a true heavy duty spinning reel down to a price point that few cannot justify.  Not everyone targets fish that can routinely put 35+ lbs of drag pressure on a reel on a regular basis.  The guys that do can easily justify a high dollar reel that will survive time after time against that.  But if you have a budget, and only get offshore a couple of times a year, its not so easy to justify a stella or saltiga, even if you risk breaking stuff. 



Why on earth would anyone want to smear Fin Nor?  ??? They are about the least consequential of any reel maker out there that I can think of?

I think at the end of the day we will see that Fin Nor made the reel too light in the stem. People shouldn't also expect miracles at 50#s of drag unless they have harnessed up and felt that at the end of a rod. Its enough to pull a man straight overboard and this reel might need to be beefed up to stand up to that over time. The guys at Quantum certainly thought so...

Honestly, the only other spinning reel I have ever seen with this problem have been Stellas in the 2008 version. I snapped the stem of one of those...by dropping it on a hard wood floor lol. But others fishing heavy drag broke them too. Shimano then rushed out the 2013 Stella with a much beefed up stem. If Fin Nor is on the ball they would do the same.

best





Jeri

Hi All,

In our rather unique fishery, where we are recently converting over to surf casting with heavy braids, we did a lot of research into reels and the likely consequences of them having a very tough life in our fishery. At the end of the day we did end up looking seriously at the Fin-Nor Lethal and the Quantum Cabo, both having by far superiour drag and build construction. The Lethal was basically offered as a cheaper version of the Cabo, and our sales have indicated that while the Fin-Nor is very attractive, it is being consistantly out sold by the Cabo.

This is without local publicity of the drawbacks that have been attributed to the Fin-Nor, but then we haven't seen any of the problems that have been highlighted. However, what we have seen is that there have been more problems with so called higher end reels, which boast serious 'waterproofing' installations, which have failed miserably, and as a consequence have then had serious problems with corrosion in the 'gearbox', which we haven't seen with either the Fin-Nor or the Cabo - probably because those two reels don't have many (if any Cabo) aluminium parts in the gearbox.

What we have seen is horrifyingly corroded reels from some of the big names, but that is as a direct result of our fishery, where we wade with the rods and reels, and the reels do spend a considerable time truly underwater. This is where the bigger Cabos come out on top, as they have a deliberately designed drain plug to let water out after fishing, and a really simple to access 'gearbox' to maintain the reels - just 4 Torx screws, and the cover is off - no need to remove the rotor or spool assembly.

At the end of the day, it very much is 'horses for courses', and obviously budget. As we in the 'Tani Family' have often seen there is no such thing as a perfect fishing reel.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri