49, 49A, 49L, 49-LH, 49L-LH Super Mariner

Started by sdlehr, April 07, 2016, 02:10:58 AM

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1badf350

-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"

Penn Chronology

QuoteDoes anyone know when Penn first made the "A" model ? As well as when they stopped putting the "A" on it ? Was it a case of folks "building there own" "A" models by adding a wide spool and longer bars, or, did Penn just stop making the "A" plate, and grabbing a "regular" one, when they had an "A" order to fill ?

The first 49 A was probably around 1950. Early reels were sold in regular 49 boxes and had the "A" stamped on the head plate. That did not last too long. There are some boxes from the later 1950's with the "A" marked on the label and not on the reel. I would think any reel with an "A" molded into head plate is an early 1950's reel. Soon Penn started using standard 49 head plates and never marked the reels again.

AC49

Thanks Mike

The confusing part about this whole process is surely there would have been moulds / stamps used to create this 49A headplate.
Why did this stop happening and Penn revert back to using standard 49 reel headplates ??
Did they lose the 49A mould / stamp ??
Was it not cost effective to carry on using the 49A headplate ??

Will wait to hear the thoughts of fellow members ....

Regards
AC49

oc1

Not my area of expertise, but molds had/have a limited life.  The repeated heating and cooling makes them warp and deform.  When things start to fit poorly it is time to have new molds made.
-steve

Penn Chronology

QuoteInsert Quote
Not my area of expertise, but molds had/have a limited life.  The repeated heating and cooling makes them warp and deform.  When things start to fit poorly it is time to have new molds made.
-steve

Exactly................. Labels are much cheaper to make than molds.

AC49

Quote from: Penn Chronology on July 26, 2019, 10:29:50 PM
QuoteInsert Quote
Not my area of expertise, but molds had/have a limited life.  The repeated heating and cooling makes them warp and deform.  When things start to fit poorly it is time to have new molds made.
-steve

Exactly................. Labels are much cheaper to make than molds.

Thanks to Steve and Mike for your input.

I was not aware that these molds had a limited life span. It would be interesting to hear how long they lasted (obviously dependent on usage). As the Penn 49A headplate is not that common even here in South Africa, I would suggest that after a shortish run (compared to other more common molds) they were retired (warped and deformed) and the common 49 headplate was used going forward  ??? ???

Interesting discussion ... thanks to all for contributing to it !!

Regards
AC49

Penn Chronology

#141
QuoteAs the Penn 49A headplate is not that common even here in South Africa,

Since the 49 A marked head plates were only made in the very early 1950's and the market they were headed for was not a market that put reels on a shelf. Those early reels were heavily used and worked very hard. And then I think of the rocks that were the base for the fishing that was done and how fisherman had to climb those rocks. I see the tackle getting banged around and damaged. it is amazing that anything survived the level of abuse that those Tuna and Rocks could do to fishing tackle. I feel the "A" marked head plates were only made for a few years, approximately 1950 to 1953, after that the "A" mold plug was discarded. I have not seen it at the factory or in any of the early mold plug photos. Finding surviving "A" marked wide 49's is not going to get any easier.

I found mine in a very unusual way. A friend of mine in Texas told me that a Alaskan Tackle Shop that he did business with on the internet, told him he had a 49 A marked reel that a customer (tourist from South Africa) brought into his shop for service. The customer never returned. A long period of time had passed and the Alaskan Shop owner wanted to sell the reel. My friend from Texas connected me with the shop owner and I bought the reel. My reel is a early model with the old style handle counter weight. This was over ten years ago. That is what got me started on the research that led to the article about the South African land based big game fishing and the 49A history.

Still have my first 49A. I probably will never let it go. Even the photos are old...................<:O)

Crow

    You got lucky on that one !  Imagine, from Pennsylvania, to South Africa, to Alaska...and then to you.....that one did some traveling !  If I'm not mistaken, there were also some "A" Jigmasters...not sure just what the differences were, but, were there any other Penn reels that were marketed only in another country ?
There's nothing wrong with a few "F's" on your record....Food, Fun, Flowers, Fishing, Friends, and Fun....to name just a few !

Penn Chronology

QuoteIf I'm not mistaken, there were also some "A" Jigmasters...not sure just what the differences were, but, were there any other Penn reels that were marketed only in another country ?

Penn reels were sold all over the world. I believe that many Penn reels were sold in South Africa. I know the Jigmaster "A" was exported to South Africa. There was no difference than the American reel. Only an "A" added to the box label as was done with some other models. As far as I know, the 49 A was the only reel that was modified for the South African fishing.

AC49

So there has been much deliberation about which parts of which reels were used in the makeup of the 49A reel.
Some have said the Jigmaster while others have said the Squidder parts were used by the Penn folks to make up the 49A.
The obvious difference between the standard Penn 49 and the South African Penn 49A is in the stand, posts and the unique reinforced fiberglass spool.
Now that we have narrowed the years down (thanks to Mike) from about 1950 to 1953 we need to take a look at which reels were available during this period.
By some accounts the Jigmaster 500 arrived about 1958 so that's too late.
The Squidder 140 was there about 1939 so that's a possibility – stand 30-200 size which is 49A correct, 4 frame posts - but the 49A uses 6.
Another reel which Ted mentioned in this post (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27224.30) is the Long Beach 67 reel. It was there from about 1939 so that's in the mix – stand 30-200 size which is 49A correct, 6 frame posts which is 49A correct.

As we know the folks at Penn used parts of existing reels for plenty of others. The Penn 67 reel would seem to be the ideal "donor" reel as it was a fairly robust saltwater reel by itself (325 yard capacity of 50 lb mono) and the 2 parts required were on the shelves already minus the unique reinforced fiberglass spool.
The part that always puzzled me was the star drag wheel 10-60 which I have found on quite a few original older 49A reels in my collection. After some research I solved that piece of the puzzle as the Penn 49 reel prior to 1952 could contain 10-60 as an original part (as per Penn catalogs #14 to #16). The Penn folks had this part in their parts supply at this time so nothing new was needed.

So in conclusion I'm with Ted that the Penn Long Beach 67 parts could very likely have been used for the 2 needed parts to convert the Penn 49 into a 49A with the spool being the only other part that needed separate engineering.

Any other opinions are welcome in this discussion.

Regards
AC49

1badf350

Long Beach 67 stand and posts. The 67 uses a 30-200 stand.  BUT for a early 50s 49A marked reel you must use the early 30-200 stand with the "squared" foot blades. The later versions have more tapered "blades".
Here are some pictures of the differences. The top picture is the stand on a 49A marked reel. Both of my marked 49A reels have the same stand.  The bottom picture is the stand of a later wide 49.
-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"

Penn Chronology

Quoteminus the unique reinforced fiberglass spool.

First 49A spools were not fiberglass reinforced. They were simply Bakelite. I believe the fiberglass reinforcement of Bakelite spools did not happen until the late 1970's. There were a number of different Bakelite spool structures. Along with the fiberglass added to the base plastic resins, the later model spools were also structured differently.

Maxed Out


As Mike said, the earliest 49a spools were bakelite and had no ribbing under side flanges. These early 49a spools were very prone to "explode" under a heavy load. This is documented in the book authored by Charles Horne, "big game fishing in South Africa"

Ted
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

CapeFish

I have first hand experience of that happening, now makes me wonder if it in fact had the 49a stamp and we ruined a collectors piece using it for shark fishing  :o

Crow

     So, I'm assuming that the "A" spools, AND the "regular" 49 series spools followed the same "evolution" ?  The "brown" plastic ones (1st issue) were bakelite (some sort of resin, with powdered sawdust as a filler), and had no form of reinforcement ribbing....the "black" plastic" were also a form of bakelite, but used glass fibers for "filler", and added ribs...in several configurations over the years ? Were the "metal" spools always (from day one) available as an option on the"regular" 49 reels ? And, again an assumption, metal spools were never made for the "A" series, so they remained either "brown", or "black" plastic, throughout the run ?    Thanks !
There's nothing wrong with a few "F's" on your record....Food, Fun, Flowers, Fishing, Friends, and Fun....to name just a few !