alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Vintage Mitchell 300 Grease
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
August 23, 2019, 05:25:16 AM *
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Author Topic: Vintage Mitchell 300 Grease  (Read 6245 times)
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foakes
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 11:09:34 PM »

It is just the shims, BZ --

While not true with Penn, DAM Quick, or ABU -- on this Mitchell series -- it is necessary, particularly after use and service -- to maybe add an extra new shim or two under the head rotator gear -- or the pinion.

Or to take one of these away sometimes.  Occasionally, the wear has been so bad that up to 4 shims are required under the head rotor.

Picture if you will, how the pinion and head gear interact.  Now realize that they have worn down or become microscopically jagged on the edges.  After a good service, they are now not meshing like when they were born.

Just need to move the rotor head gear slightly away from the pinion using some shims, along with your new lubrication.  You will know when you have it right -- because the reel will perform as when new immediately.  What you are doing, is very slightly moving the gears away from each other by using spacers as appropriate.

These shims do not rotate -- they are used as spacers.

I'll be glad to send some out tomorrow -- enough for both of your reels.

I know this may be hard to believe that such a tiny thing will make that much difference -- but that is the way it works.

Best Regards,

Fred


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“A Smooth Sea Never Made a Skillful Sailor”.

There are ten reasons to consider when choosing your next fishing reel.

The first is to pick a reel you like — The other nine reasons don’t matter.
basszilla
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 06:26:06 AM »

Thanks, PM sent.

I tried loosening the rotor nut as a test to see if moving it out might help, but no go. Still noisy. So, maybe it does need more (or less) shimming under the pinion. One thing I noticed is that this second reel has considerably more end play at the rotor. That bugs me a little, but I'm not sure it has anything to do with the noise.

Say, why is there a screw at the butt end of the reel body? Is that just a way to cover the hole that was made during the machining process? The steel seat doesn't appear to be removable.

Jack
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foakes
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 07:18:23 AM »

Good morning, Jack --

That is the reason there were different types of greases inside the body casing -- along with the original factory dried up gunk -- that is a grease port.

Idea was for a fisherman to be able to add grease to the reel easily.

Probably better than nothing -- however, this leads to a lot of assumptions that as long as one can grease the reel and not hear or feel what is going on inside -- all is well.

Sort of like instead of changing the motor oil in your car -- just keep pumping in new oil until the red low oil warning light goes out -- paying no attention to how much, or the mixing of various types of greases.

Or in the case of a reel, not actually applying the right amount of grease where it needs to go sparingly -- but properly -- for peak functioning.

Got your PM, will send the shims.

Best,

Fred
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“A Smooth Sea Never Made a Skillful Sailor”.

There are ten reasons to consider when choosing your next fishing reel.

The first is to pick a reel you like — The other nine reasons don’t matter.
basszilla
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 08:15:34 AM »

That's actually kinda funny, thinking about someone just filling up the reel with grease from the back.

One more question - What primarily determines the end play at the center shaft? The shaft on this second reel moves in and out a lot more than the first one. That translates to slop at the spool. The shim behind the rotor isn't supposed to also have a washer, right? This one has all three washers (two bronze, one steel) on the outer side of the rotor. Should one of those be next to the shim?


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foakes
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 08:39:01 AM »

As long as the line lay on the spool is even -- you are fine.

There could be wear on the oscillator slide, pin, or gear -- but it should work OK.

Sometimes parts have been switched around with other parts that could be slightly different.

Without having the reel on the bench -- it is sometimes just a guess based on previous experience.

Brass shims are for spacing and friction reducing -- steel washers are for snugging up against a housing, rotor, etc.-- with a hex nut for strength.

Sometimes you need to play around with the number of shims -- but no steel washer goes inside the casing where the rotor gear interacts with the pinion.

Sounds like you are doing well with these -- and learning -- but if you get stuck, you can send it to one of the repair guys on site, or myself.  We can switch parts around and tune it to get peak performance.

Best,

Fred
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“A Smooth Sea Never Made a Skillful Sailor”.

There are ten reasons to consider when choosing your next fishing reel.

The first is to pick a reel you like — The other nine reasons don’t matter.
basszilla
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2017, 11:33:19 AM »

Funny how it's the little things that create confusion. I finally figured out how the shimming and spacing works.

The distance from the head to the body isn't determined by 49A, even though that's called a "shim to adjust head and housing." The head-to-body distance is actually determined by 49B, called "shims to adjust head and baffle plate." I didn't understand this until this morning, when I discovered that the washer on top of 49B rests on the shoulder of the steel tube. I was trying to figure out what keeps the whole assembly from being crushed together when the baffle nut is tightened. The washer represents a fixed position relative to the body, so it's the shims under the washer that push the head toward the body and fix that distance. 49A is selected to simply fill the gap on the other side. It minimizes end play and provides an anti-wear surface.

After conducting a few more tests by moving things around, I think the noisy retrieve is the result of insufficient engagement by the pinion gear. If I'm right, the pinion will need to be shimmed away from the cover. After the parts come in, I'll see if my novice analysis is correct.  Undecided

Beautiful weather here today, and predicted for tomorrow too. Unfortunately, I don't quite have everything together yet to take my daughter fishing. I did find a lake nearby that's renowned for crappie though. I think she'll like that.   Grin

Almost forgot, I eliminated the excessive end play at the spool by swapping out the spindle. The original spindle must be worn down internally where the spring fingers hold it down.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 11:38:13 AM by basszilla » Logged
basszilla
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 05:37:33 AM »

I had one of my 300s on the water this weekend. It was like visiting a long lost friend. Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to walk me through this. Grin


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mo65
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 05:45:24 AM »

   It sounds like your efforts were well worth it. I too really enjoy fishing with a well tuned reel...especially if I did the tuning. Congrats on a job well done!  Cool
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mo65
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« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 07:36:17 PM »

Picture if you will, how the pinion and head gear interact.  Now realize that they have worn down or become microscopically jagged on the edges.  After a good service, they are now not meshing like when they were born.

Just need to move the rotor head gear slightly away from the pinion using some shims, along with your new lubrication.  You will know when you have it right -- because the reel will perform as when new immediately.  What you are doing, is very slightly moving the gears away from each other by using spacers as appropriate.

   After reading this thread I remembered I had a 301 that sounded like a Nazi MG 42 when it was cranked...even with the anti-reverse off! I popped the side cover off and pulled the pinion off the post. Sure enough...there were no shims under the pinion. I didn't have any shims with an O.D. small enough to not bump into the main gear. I had a regular brass washer small enough, but it was so thick the pinion and rotor head gear crammed together barely movable. I needed to split the difference...somewhere between nothing and 40 thousandths. This is where my break for jello and whipped cream paid off. I looked at that whipped cream lid and saw the light...grabbed my caliper and checked that lid...it was 20 thousandths! I cut out a reasonable lookin' shim with an exacto knife and slipped it under the pinion. Success! The reel feels and sounds much better, thanks fellas. Cool
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happyhooker
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 06:50:57 PM »

Shim work on the 300 & related reels can be time-consuming and a lot of folks don't understand it.  My pet peeve--and it's happened a couple of times--is finding loose shims inside the body.  Got a 300A opened up right now, and, sure enough, when I opened the cover, there was one shim under the pinion gear and another of the same size stuck in the grease on the cover under the main gear.  Was it somebody in the past who just didn't pay attention to the shims and dropped one off into the body while leaving one on the post?  How can you slide the main gear on with a loose shim staring you in the face as you do so?  The grease didn't look real old, so I'm thinking it can't be something a pretty French mademoiselle did during assembly.  So, now, on reassembly, I'll have to take a 50-50 chance and put either 1 or 2 shims under the pinion and hope I guess right the 1st time; if not, then you gotta crack it open again & try the other way.

(Whew, I feel better now that I've got that off my chest.)

Frank
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 02:12:25 PM »

If you open a Mitchell reel and find 3 blobs of stiff peanut butter looking grease you got a good one. Its never been messed with. Cheesy
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 02:15:56 PM »

   Basszilla...you'll be amazed at the difference in feel you can get in a reel just by adjusting lube viscosity. Congrats on your first tune up!  Cool

Very True!!
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