Meisselbach Tripart and another clutch

Started by oc1, February 03, 2017, 11:46:36 AM

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oc1

The little Meisselbach Tripart was not expensive in its day.  They must have sold a lot of them because there are always many for sale at the auction.  The Tripart and the Takapart are very similar.  The Takapart is a 100 yard size and the Tripart is an 80 yard size. They are tube reels, meaning the frame and stand is cut from a single piece of tubing.  A threaded ring holds the side plates to the frame.  They can be quickly disassembled by unscrewing the rings and removing the side plates and spool.

The head plate can be rotated and used with the handle at the top, bottom, front or back.  The tail plate can be rotated and locked into place by the ring with the clicker button in any orientation.

Sorry for the photos.  This one still had all the grime.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPa.jpg
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPb.jpg
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPc.jpg
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPd.jpg

They were made with few changes for almost thirty years.  The ones marked
A.F.MEISSELBACH & BRO
NEWARK N.J. USA
are from Gus and William Meissenbach between about 1906 to 1917  The ones marked
A.F.MEISSELBACH MFG.CO.
NEWARK N.J. USA
were made after the company was sold to Otto Heineman in 1917.  The ones marked
A.F.MEISSELBACH MFG.CO.
ELYRIA,O,USA
were made from 1921 when the factory was moved to Ohio until the Tripart was discontinued during the depression.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPe.jpg
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPf.jpg
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPg.jpg

The design did not change much.  The early ones had a clicker spring like the one on the left and later ones (Heineman era) are like the one on the right.  
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPh.jpg
The spool tension cap also changed slightly. Early one on the left and later one on the right.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPi.jpg
 
You usually find the knuckle buster Tripart 580.  The Tripart Free-Spool model 581 was introduced some time between 1909 and 1914.  In this photo, a Tripart 580 is out of focus in the foreground, a Tripart Free-Spool 581 in the back left, and back right is a larger Takapart Free-Spool 481 Simmons Special (made for Simmons Hardware).  In these examples, the Takapart and Tripart differ in the way the friction clutch is activated, although this could be a temporal difference rather than a model difference.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPk.jpg

The heart of the clutch is a penny-size eccentric.  When the handle is turned backward or when line is playing off the spool the eccentric dogs are retracted.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPn.JPG

When the handle is turned forward the eccentrics are pushed outward and protrude outside the disc.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPo.JPG

The clutch is nestled into a depression in the side of the spool.  When the dogs are protruding, they engage two raised stops (bumps) within that depression.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPm.JPG

The clutch has free moving disc with the eccentric dogs attached, sandwiched between the pinion and diamond-shaped piece pressed onto the pinion steel.  Moving the disc relative to the pinion and diamond-shaped block actuates the eccentric.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPr.jpg

The disc has a wire clip in a perimeter slot.  When the pinion is moved the wire clip contacts a post rotating the lower disc forward or backward and engaging or disengaging the clutch.  Rotating the pinion by moving the handle forward engages the clutch.  Rotating the pinion by moving the handle backward or by pulling line off the spool disengages the clutch.

Very little pressure on the wire clip is needed to rotate the disc and move the eccentric.  The wire clip is held in place only by spring friction and can spin around on the disc.  So, turning the handle too far backward does no damage.  When a fish strikes and abruptly pulls line from the spool the clutch will automatically disengage and long as you do not hold the handle too firmly.  If it rotates backward just a few degrees it will disengage.  Since the pinion is always meshed with the main gear you cannot really damage them with the clutch.

The 1909 patent can be found here:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjk576Q5fPRAhUOyWMKHRaNAbgQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpatentimages.storage.googleapis.com%2Fpdfs%2FUS929867.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFHwyH3A_rpD6CQGfl1GV59qhqfPw&sig2=RIox-8JBv-lgpqh5EuEyRg
Note that the shape of the eccentric is different in the patent and the final product.
-steve

mo65

   Cool reel Steve...interesting mechanics. 8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


The Great Maudu

That is the breakdown explanation I have ever seen for one of these reels. I love Meisselbach reels style and complicated, ingenious nature. These little reels exhibit true genius of the maker and you them proud.

sdlehr

Sid Lehr
Veterinarian, fishing enthusiast, custom rod builder, reel collector

Tightlines667

#4
Great writeup!

I too love the Miesselbachs.  The varied and somewhat complex mechanical engineering in his reels, provides us with a glipse into the mind of a genius.  I surprised that more of his design features did not gain more widespread use.

John
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

foakes

 Nice explanation of these great old reels from 100 years ago, Steve.

Even after a century -- the material, engineering, and tolerance quality enables you to restore with just a service and clean up.

If any of you ever need some of these parts -- I found a box of Triparts with near completes, skeletons, and NOS frames, etc. -- in one of the bins.

Problem is, except for cosmetics -- these seldom need any parts -- just TLC to bring them back.

But I have more than a few, if ever needed for the Ohana.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

oc1

#6
I was planning to fish with this.  The little wire is pretty badly worn and corroded so I made a new one with some stainless hard wire.  It works great but the wire is too thick and does not fully seat itself in the slot.  I'll need to find some smaller wire (it's here somewhere) and make another.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPp.JPG

The handle knob is a celluloid plastic that they called "Ivoroid" (faux ivory) back in the day.  The brass pin was bent and the plastic was worn at both ends so it felt terrible with a lot of wobble and side play.  I ground down the peening on the back of the handle (badly gouging the handle in the process), grabbed the head of the pin with pliers (gouging the pin head and knob in the process) and twisted it out.  With the pin straightened, shortened and peened back in place it feels better.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPs.jpg

Be careful taking the handle off.  Sometimes they are stuck and you see a lot of auction listing where the handle is sheared off.  Remove the nut and then unscrew the handle from the main gear post.  There is a bit of taper on the threads so it will be really tight.  use penetrating oil and heat on the handle arm if necessary.  When unscrewing the handle you can put a wrench on the raised portion in the center of the spool to hold it.  I feel better removing the pinion and grabbing the main gear by the teeth using a thick piece of red rubber gasket material and pliers.

The free spool in this example is not very good.  Maybe ten seconds.  When polishing the bearing in the head plate I noticed it is worn.  This could be the problem, but it is more likely that the problem is in the design of the clutch.  When casting, you have the spool supported by brass bearings on each end.  Hopefully, the meshing of the main gear and pinion is keeping the pinion centered on the spool shaft and it is not rubbing the shaft or rubbing the inside of that brass race the clutch sits in.  I suspect the main gear is not providing enough support and stabilization of the clutch/pinion and there is some rubbing of the spool shaft going on.  I need to paint the shaft with Marks-A-Lot to get a better idea of how much it is rubbing.

I spooled the reel with 100 yards of 18# Dacron.  There is room to spare even though it is supposed to be an 80 yard reel.  The natural fiber lines these reels were designed for were much thicker than Dacron.  Trying to use light mono or braid in these reels may not end well. The gap between the edge of the spool flange and the plates it too large.

The reel was put on my best bamboo stick and test casted.  It was disappointing because the Shakespeare Standard Professional Free Spool with the Koph clutch is measurably longer.  When the Koph clutch is disengaged the pinion is secured to and spins with the spool so there is nothing to rub on the spool shaft.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20246.15
The Meisselbach clutch seems fool proof and is not an accident waiting to happen like the Koph clutch.  But, I would hate to give up extra distance.

With that said though, this reel and the Shakespeare can both cast a jig tied on a 3/8 ounce weight.  The knuckle busters without a clutch need about 5/8 ounces of weight to get the same distance.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPt.jpg

The next step is to make a rod with a lighter tip to accommodate the lighter jig.  
-steve

Alto Mare

Always top notch stuff from you Steve, thanks for sharing.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Midway Tommy

Well done, Steve. Great examples, presentation and explanation. 
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

alantani

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

oc1

#10
Another one of these free spool triparts arrived in the mail today.  I don't know how that happened, but I am soon going to stop drinking and sitting up late.

I took this second reel apart very carefully and looked to see if the little wire loop on the clutch was fitted over the post.  It was not.  I am pretty sure the wire loop was not fitted over the post in the first reel either.  In fact, I initially put it back together with the wire in any random orientation and the clutch worked fine.
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPq.jpg
When the handle is turned backward the disc and spring would swing around (counterclockwise in the photo), hit the post, put tension on the disc and disengage the clutch.  When the handle is turned forward the disc and wire clip would spin around clockwise until it hit something from the other direction and engage the clutch.  Since the gear ratio is about 3.4:1, the handle would only have to be turned about a third of a revolution to engage or disengage the clutch.

I knew something was amiss when the wire kept catching on the protruding bit of main gear shaft where it is peened down in the bridge.  The clutch still worked fine, but only about a sixth of a handle revolution was needed to engage or disengage the clutch.  In the photo you can see a worn spot on the bridge where the spring has been dragging over it for who-knows-how-long.  I finally looked at the patent drawings and found the wire loop is supposed to be fitted over the post.  The clutch works fine in that configuration too but it reacts to a change in direction much more quickly.  There are not many things that can be assembled incorrectly and still work flawlessly.

Speaking of the bridge, notice that is it fitted over some little posts/nubs and then screwed down from the outside.  This gives it four points of contact and a more solid connection.  Some of the less robust knuckle busters have the bridge attached only by the two screws.  Over time, the screws can vibrate loose and if they are not kept really tight you can get some movement in the bridge, the holes in the side plate are soon wallowed out and the problem snowballs.  Some even less robust reels (like the early Shakespeare Criterion) do not have a bridge at all and the main gear is held in place only by the pinion and the side plate collar under the handle.  You can hear the slop in the main gear when casting, you probably sacrifice distance, and probably wear out the gears prematurely.  The differences do not seem to be an evolution in design, but rather a reflection of quality.  Some very early high quality reels have a solid bridge while some later cheap reels do not.
-steve

mhc

#11
Great post Steve, They're interesting reels - I can't stop looking at the clutch system and wondering how to apply the concept to a silent AR system.

Mike
It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

oc1

#12
Please let me know when you figure it out Mike.

So, I degreased the clutch and right side of the spool then scribbled all over it with a Sharpie pen.  
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPv.JPG

Put it back together and spun the spool for a while.  With the lubrication removed you could hear it rubbing.  
http://www.raingarden.us/snap/TPu.JPG
The rubbing was confined to that area under the pinion and where the clutch met the step at the base of the spool shaft.  On reel #2 the worst of the rubbing was a little farther up the shaft under the clutch.  The free spin time on the second reel is not any better than the first.  It's clear the pinion and clutch is riding on the spool shaft with very little support from the main gear.

I hoped for a panacea but the Tripart may not be it.  
-steve




basto

Great post Steve. One thing I like about these old reels is how well they cope with corrosion when there is no aluminium parts.

Mike, I think the anti reverse system you are thinking of is called "friction wheel". Some Avets use it and Banax use it on their SX spin reel. It is silent and more reliable than the silent dog with ears type.
Basto
DAM Quick 3001      SHIMANO Spedmaster 3   Jigging Master PE5n

oc1

#14
I'm with you Basto and am not a fan of aluminum, either vintage of modern.  I hope the modern aluminum will soon be replaced by plastic/carbon composite.  Recently had the edge of an aluminum spool on the newest Shimano eaten through by corrosion due to my neglect.  Vintage aluminum spools have to be given special handling if used in saltwater.  I had to find this out the hard way too when a 1930's Shakespeare aluminum spool was left for two weeks with wet Dacron line.  Another few weeks and the corrosion would have eaten right through the flanges.
-steve