alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Help Id a penn reel , "Old Penn reel with aftermarket backlash adjustment"
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Author Topic: Help Id a penn reel , "Old Penn reel with aftermarket backlash adjustment"  (Read 30207 times)
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oldmanjoe
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« on: May 09, 2017, 10:25:01 AM »

  My father handed me a penn reel the other day and asked if i could find the missing parts for this reel.      
   Left side plate "surfmaster" Above the clicker is another shaft that goes to a brake shoe assembly .
It is missing the lever and nut , the right side plate say`s penn no 200 .  I have tryed to find pictures and schematic of the left side plate with no luck.
 Please can any one help me on this . I will try to upload a few pictures.   thank`s  joe


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« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 02:41:07 PM by oldmanjoe » Logged

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Bill B (Tarfu)
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 10:38:14 AM »

That is like nothing I have ever seen.  I am assuming this is a casting brake, but possibly a "Sundown" drag feature to be used if a fish was in danger of spooling the reel.  Looks to be very well made, and possibly an aftermarket part.  I am sure others will chime in soon.  Very unique piece.

Bill
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 10:56:11 AM »

Here is the link to Surfmaster 200 parts on the MysticParts' site:  https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn200M.aspx   Tongue ... Just now noticing you are looking for the parts for the braking control, but they won't be at Scott's.  Looks like a drum brake to push against the spool.



"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 08:43:35 AM by mizmo67 » Logged
oldmanjoe
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 11:03:53 AM »

  I don`t think this is afterarket or home made .     More pictures .   joe


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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
oldmanjoe
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 11:19:17 AM »

  My father lives in port charlote on a cannal and found this reel at a yard sale , hence the no history of this reel.
  If more  pictures are needed ask away  Smiley thank you joe.


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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
foakes
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 11:36:43 AM »

That appears to be a cast control setup to help prevent birdnests when casting in the surf.

There were many cast control and aftermarket items made for Penn's -- particularly after the war.

Folks had a little more time and money for leisure activities like fishing -- plus, many talented machinists that had been developing their skills during the war effort -- were very clever.

This could have been a one or two made by an individual, a fellow who made a few for sale, a shop that offered modifications and upgrades, or a product that never gained traction because of not knowing how to market or mass produce.

A knob or lever would have gone on the shaft -- as it was moved, more or less braking resistance would be applied to the spool -- which would control the rate the line might over dump off the spool when casting.

Pretty neat -- I suspect a few of the early plastic or bakelite spools were broken by over-torquing against the spool.

Doubt if it is factory -- but really cool.

Hope you clean it up, find a knob that works -- use it and report back to us!

Best,

Fred
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 12:16:55 PM »

I'm not sure what mods those are to that reel, but I'm pretty sure that's not factory.  The "lug" attachments lead me to believe there was more to that "rigamareel" than what you currently have. 
Neat piece anyhow,
Dom
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Tightlines666
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 12:43:44 PM »

Interesting design feature there.  The reel appears numbered, and thus is post 1950 production.  The brake casting mech. is likely an aftermarket ad on, and was likely used to apply additional drag pressure when needed, though it could have functiomed as an antibacklash device, as was suggested previously.  Finding the missing control nut and/or lever may be nearly impossible, as this could be a 'one off' or done in small numbers.  It's the first of its kind I have witnessed.  You may need to have someone machine a custom part if you want to restore the mechasism's functionality.  It appears that you would need a washer (or 2?), a spring washer (or 2?), a lever, and a retaining nut. Edit: or maybe just unscrew the threaded portion and mount a lever secured with a standard penn retaining nut? You would mightwant to measure the external Inner and outter diameter, length, and TPI (& pitch) of the bolt.  I wouldn't be surprised if a penn part, or a common aftermarket part or parts were used here.  It looks like the cam may have been produced using a standard penn eccentric cam.

Interesting reel.

Thanis for sharing!

John
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 04:00:59 PM by Tightlines666 » Logged

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oldmanjoe
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 01:54:24 PM »

Interesting design feature there.  The reel appears numbered, and thus is post 1950 production.  The brake casting mech. is likely an aftermarket ad on, and was likely used to apply additional drag pressure when needed, though it could yave functiomed as an antibacklash device, as was suggested previously.  Finding the missing control nut and/or lever may be nearly impossible, as th8s could be a 'one off' or done in small numbers.  It's the first of its kind I have witnessed.  You may need to have someone machine a custom part if you want to restore the mechasism's functionality.  It appears that you would need a washer (or 2?), a spring washer (or 2?), a lever, and a retaining nut.  You would want to measure the external Inner and outter diameter, length, and TPI (& pitch) of the bolt.  I woupdn't be syrprised if a penn part, or a common aftermarket part or parts were used here.  It looks like the cam may have been produced using a standard penn eccentric cam.

Interesting reel.

Thanis for sharing!

John
    I think you are rite ,  i have spent about 7 hours in the last few days trying different keywords for this reel .
    I will take a few measurements and go back to looking at some  schematics with lever winds.   joe
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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
foakes
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 02:18:34 PM »

John is probably right about the Penn parts --

Looks like the shoulder of the bolt barely protruding out of the bushing -- has the shape that will fit a Penn Eccentric Lever.

Why make a special lever, if they are already available -- and match?

Just a thought...

Best,

Fred


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alantani
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 03:11:22 PM »

very clever!!!!!
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 03:39:51 PM »

John is probably right about the Penn parts --

Looks like the shoulder of the bolt barely protruding out of the bushing -- has the shape that will fit a Penn Eccentric Lever.

Why make a special lever, if they are already available -- and match?

Just a thought...

Best,

Fred
     Now this makes sense , that`s why the threaded shaft looked a little long.
     Here is a rought draw with measurements


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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
Gfish
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 04:07:07 PM »

Very interesting, you just gotta keep us updated on the functionality of this anomaly, once you get it fixed up. It does kinda look like an eccentric lever or one thats modified might work.
Gfish
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 01:28:16 AM »

I'm wondering if whoever installed it ever got the thing to work.

Do the brake shoes contact the edge of the spool when the eccentric is turned?  It does not look like they would reach.  Also, there are no wear marks on that metal plate plastered to the spool flange.  The brake shoes aren't magnetic, are they?

You could remove the eccentric and shaft then grind a sixteenth off the bronze/brass sleeve from the outside.  Your local hardware store might have a brass cap nut and washer to hold an eccentric lever on.

I'd make sure it's going to work before looking for parts.

-steve
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:40:05 AM by oc1 » Logged
foakes
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 03:51:28 AM »

Have you ever had that nagging feeling that there is something more to a puzzle -- and in the back of your mind you have a slight inkling of the solution -- but cannot tune it in yet?

Woke up this morning at 2:30 -- got to bed at 9:00 last night -- so that is enough sleep -- went upstairs to a box of old Penns -- and pulled out this Squidder 145 with old maroon sideplates.

Never had this reel apart -- but it contains the complete anti-backlash system that Joe has part of -- on his Surfmaster.

When surfcasting, a backlash never happens until the sinker hits the seafloor -- this device senses the loose line -- and stops the spools rotation -- thus preventing a birdsnest -- at least that is my theory.  It is very lightly spring loaded -- as well as super-sensitive.  Could be the angler releases his thumb from the mechanism to activate the spool braking?

When I saw the attachment rivits for a bar of some sort on top -- attached to the rings, and the fact that Joe's measurements were much smaller than my comparisons to an eccentric -- that is when I woke up.

This particular reel works very well -- including the add-on.

At first glance, it is a well engineered and capable mechanism -- with at least 27 parts, plus the spool.

Notice that the spool has a race braized or welded to the side -- and it is very professionally done -- so maybe the replacement spool was an option on some of the reels?

Guess I should do something with it -- like maybe restore it?

This system could also be installed on a OC.

Michael will know much more about these devices, I believe.

I will do more research into who made this -- and I can't go back to sleep now -- it is 4:49 -- and I will not get to bed until 11:00 tonight.

I will do a little more research...

Best,

Fred

EDIT:  Possibly similar to an Ocean City Far Cast reel?  If anyone wants more pics, glad to provide some if requested.  Michael will be along soon, I trust, to shed more accurate light on this subject.

This reel came from rancanfish (Randy) a few years ago -- never opened it up until now.


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« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:07:14 AM by foakes » Logged

Get a Good Night's Sleep -- Only (3) things happen after Midnight -- and none of them are good...


There are ten reasons to consider when choosing your next fishing reel.

The first is to pick a reel you like ó The other nine reasons donít matter.
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