USA vs Chinese Penn Jigmaster comparison video

[festus]

This guy is fairly new to youtube and has some interesting videos.

He exposes some of the weak points of the newer Jigmasters here.

[foakes]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion — and this guy does good youtube videos.

However, little, if any, of his critical assessments are accurate...

There is little or no difference in the eccentric springs —

The metal he says is SS, is actually nickel coated brass — not SS.  

Handles may be a little weaker, I have actually found some of the newer ones are stronger.

Other parts on the Chinese made Jig-masters are a little stronger, in some cases.

——————————————————

Here is the other thing that few folks know:

If a new 500 was manufactured in the US, it would likely cost $110 to $140, IMO.  Few of us are willing to pay that (I wouldn't, and I am sure most on our AT site would not either).  So they would not sell because although they are super dependable, they are old school and boring to the angling world.

I work on a lot of 500, 209, and 9s.

If I needed an aluminum spool for a JM, it would run $29 + shipping, a sideplate $20, a ring $17, a bridge $18 — plus the other 46 parts would still be additional.

If a LW assembly was needed for a 209, it might run $30 for all the parts.

I can buy a new 500, with an aluminum spool, for $57.83 shipped to my door in 2 days — and all of the extra parts are now inventory for needed repairs — and close to 100% profit on parts, since they are paid for — screws, drags, gears, posts, rings, cranks, etc., etc..

A new 209 will run $58.43, a new 9M will run $41.80 — all shipped to my door.

Sometimes, I buy 10 at a time, and just strip them down for individual parts inventory.

They all fit — older or newer.

So, sometimes our experience will give us a different perspective or picture — then we see on the internet.

We should verify and test things ourselves — before we believe everything we are told.

I am grateful that Penn has chosen to produce these less expensive reels in China — and keep parts compatible for the most part.

Each of us does things differently, depending on our focus and how many reels we repair or work on.

Just don't like to see the Asian Penn products trashed or painted unfairly with too wide of a brush — they are good, solid products. 

Yes, I would like to buy everything American — but that ship sailed a few decades ago — and is not coming back.

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

[Gfish]

Yeah, he got the ss bridge-plate thing wrong. But I wonder about the "alloy" corrosion assessment?... True?...Could the eccentric spring breaking prematurely on the newer ones be true?... Like to see how he comes to these conclusions, 'cause you really gotta test stuff in a controlled environment.

Didn't watch the 209 part.

Another thing to be carefull of is making statements about felt washers needin to be replaced with HT-100's. Never herd of felt drag washers in a 500? Did I miss the boat on that one?

I'd love it if the Penn's were all produced here, old school style. I'd pay more for 'em... I can only hope that the Chinese workers are payed a decent wage, but I doubt it.
I have several friends and even more acquaintances on the island---green carded persons all workin in the resturant industry and they work 12 hrs. 6 days/week, and send most of their $ home. I think they'ed stay there, near their families and work manufacturing, if it payed a good wage.
This little cutie is 16 month old Olivia(picture taken at 13 mon.). Her parents had to send her to Grandma and Grandad's in the Chinese countryside so they could both work and not have to depend on paid babysitters here, that they couldn't trust( 2 injuries, while in the babysitters care, how do you dislocate a 1yr. old's arm at the shoulder?!?!).

[festus]

Nope, I don't agree with everything the guy says and does.  I've never seen him completely take apart a reel, soak, and clean everything like we're taught on here.  Most I've seen him do is partially disassemble the reels, replace a few parts, maybe spray some WD-40, do a wipedown, lube, and reassemble. 

He's says he's been in the reel repair business for 20 years so undoubtedly he knows much more than I do.  Probably does good work but takes more shortcuts than I would.

[mo65]

The metal he says is SS, is actually nickel coated brass — not SS.  

   Ya know, if I had a nickle for every time someone called nickle/chrome plated brass stainless steel I could buy us all a beer. I don't even get it either...it's not the same appearance...doesn't even feel the same...not even close! Sorta like comparing Lincoln to Nixon. OK Mo, settle down.

[Reel 224]

I was going to comment on the cost of manufacturing the 500 in the US as far as pricing goes, but I doubt that will change opinion. But I would say that Penn USA has proven there quality of old school reels for a long time.

Most of us grew up knowing the quality of Penn manufacturing like I do, I for one don't have a problem with pricing when it comes to quality, further more we spend more money building custom reel built on the Peen base all the time.

I like/prefer American made over any other country's product when American is in my opinion is better quality.

Joe   

[Alto Mare]

I give that man a lot of credit for trying to help others, even though he got some stuff wrong, well... maybe all wrong .
In some cases, the chromed parts are stronger that stainless steel. I have a couple of those in my 16/0's.

Sal

[Swami805]

I think a lot of us here trust the Penn name and would believe they wouldn't sell a product that wasn't up to snuff even if it was built on the moon. I would hope the people in China are better off working at the Penn plant than they were before, A rising tide raises all ships or something like that

[JRD]

I'm a combat vet, with two sons in a hostile place so don't get me wrong but what's made in America really mean?  Ford's and Chevy come from Mexico and Canada, Honda's and Toyota's in the US.  Most manufacturing equipment and materials come from over seas and we don't have a skilled work force of old school craftsmen anymore.  The only thing I can guarantee made in America is my kids. 

Penn quality probably suffers more from the grade of materials available in today's eco friendly world than manufacturing.  They are the AK-47 of reels, pretty much interchangeable and functional no matter where it's produced.  Seems this guy has just drank the patriotic kool aide without much real evidence to back him up. 

Are the vintage better quality?  Absolutely but that's a function of when they are produced, not where. 

[Reel 224]

Inaccurate information is as bad as no information, misleading people on the wrong path.

Joe

[oc1]

Don't worry guys.  Much of that manufacturing will come back to the US eventually.  Just waiting for the rising standard of living overseas to meet us half way. 
-steve

[Keta]

Be careful and keep this thread from going political or we will have to shut it down....something I really hate to do.

There are lots of reasons manufacturing moved overseas.  Greed by both the company and consumer is just one of the reasons, hard to do or unobtainable environmental regulations is another.  FYI one of my past jobs was to try to keep up with the environmental protection laws and before we could meet the latest "current regulations" they were made tougher and we could never catch up...and the fines made it harder to fund the BOD upgrades needed.  I'm all for a clean environment but at times the EPA goes too far. 

I have countries I prefer to "buy" from, the PRC has never been on that list but Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan are.  This is mostly "quality driven" but somewhat political China has improved their quality over the years.  The PRC Penn's I have (Fathom 25N reels in both star and lever drag and a Warfare) ) look to be well built.  I have had issues with LW worm gears in Warfare LW reels but the customer uses them for albacore and in my opinion is causing part of the problem himself.

[Decker]

In some cases, the chromed parts are stronger that stainless steel. I have a couple of those in my 16/0's.

Sal

Sal, I thought you were a stainless guy through and through  Can you give an example of how chromed brass can be stronger than the same part in stainless?  


Gfish, I like the way you put a human face on the differences.   

Cheers,

/Joe

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

I have no qualifications as a metallurgist, but I have bought and sold more than 500 used Jigmasters, so I speak from first-hand experience.  

Even though the average age of the Chinese reels was at least 20 years newer than the USA reels, the condition of the metal parts in and on most of those Chinese reels was on average, far worse.  I avoid them whenever possible.

[Decker]

Also speaking without personal qualifications, and anecdotally...    I remember when I was a kid in the 60's, Japanese steel had a bad reputation.  I don't know how much substance there was to the argument, but Japanese products where pushing more and more into the market.  Penn vs. Daiwa was a big battle in the 70's.   Everyone I know preferred the Penns, but the Daiwas had some attention-getting innovations and were priced nicely.   We bought more Penns, but a few Daiwas.   I'm not a reel expert, but now vintage Daiwa Sealine reels compare favorably with Penn conventionals.   Seems like China is the next wave, and metallurgy is a work in progress there.  I'm more worried about how Chinese people are treated and the government ideologies, than the quality of the goods.