alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial 1st project, pimping out my Senator
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
September 18, 2019, 10:26:58 PM *
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Author Topic: 1st project, pimping out my Senator  (Read 1311 times)
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milne
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« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2019, 04:41:27 AM »

Hi Alan,
           Yes, as mentioned, the old brass sleeve is a firmer fit on the D/D bridge post than the new S/S sleeve.
         When the sleeve is fitted to the bridge, with the locking pin in the sleeve, then with holding the bridge plate and gripping the sleeve down low to the bridge, you can feel the movement at the base and even here the slop when moving it side to side, if you follow what i'm saying.
 I guess what I'm describing is in that last photo, the larger hole in the bottom of the sleeve to the base of the bridge.
 I'll put it to one side at the minute, I'm down in Aussie, so it's near the cost of the parts in freight alone for me.  I want to do one other 113h as well soon, so,I might just wait till then and try another set up. I believe its the sleeve milling, as the old brass one fits fine on the d/d bridge plate, so I may even try to shim it if possible, I'll see what I can do with it, but I'll compare when I order up for my second 113h.
Thanks Alan

Col
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 04:43:24 AM by milne » Logged
mo65
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« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2019, 06:51:23 AM »

I understand that there has been the use of a shim under the sleeve to address this issue, but I can't seem to find any discussion anywhere from the searches I made. It looks to me that the hole for the pin in the sleeve would dictate whether a shim was necessary, as shimming would lift the sleeve up closer to the pin itself and reduce inward/outward movement of the handle assembly, and I guess it would help reduce overall slop, which is what I am seeing on the new S/S assembly comparing to the standard stock bridge there is definitely outward slop due to pin placement, much more than the stock one. However its the lateral movement of the sleeve on the bridge post which is markedly more than the standard bridge sleeve assembly. 

Hi Col,
   I can't believe you couldn't find any discussion of shimming the gear sleeve...this forum is polluted with sleeve slop posts. It seems to be one of the the biggest problem folks encounter while customizing Penns. It's also one of the easiest to remedy, although it sends most of us into mind control the first time dealing with it...HA! What feels like a huge amount of end play is most times way smaller than it appears. What it takes to actually close that "gaping hole" will shock you. What can feel like 1/8th an inch of travel is actually only a few thousandths. Taking up that end play also makes the lateral movement feel tighter. The key is not to overdo it. You do not want the sleeve tight...a few thousandths end play is required. After fixing one of these things you see how a few thousandths can make a huge difference. Just get a handful of shim washers and experiment. Washers from .002 to .010 can be used in combination to arrive at just what you need. Cool
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~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~

milne
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« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2019, 03:41:00 PM »

Hi Mo,
          I'll admit I'm not the sharpest tool when it comes to searching or playing on the computer  Grin
     I'll do some more searching tonight, maybe it's the words I'm using in the search feature.                                                                                         The " in-out movement on the sleeve, is fairly good on the pin hole I'm using, the other hole I
  tried was way looser, it's a good option having a second option hole, i can see why there's two.
   Randy has some options for aluminium spools which I'm going to use as well, which should give it a decent weight reduction which I'm keen to try
   and some frame options for my second 113h.
 Mo, I get you, when you mention only a few thou makes a big difference, cause that would be all it is and at the handle end that is really amplified.
 I'm going to get my second 113h started as well, the only difference is that that one is an older external drag model, all I've ever done with that one was swap out to new drags. So I'm going to make up some bearing removal tools, as per Alan's tutorials and give both reels bearings the good once over, then order up the spools and frame and upgrade internals for my second one, while those parts are making there migration, I'll play around with "shimming" this first D/D assembly and see if I can improve it's slop......
Thanks MO,    I will get there !!!!!!!!

Col
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mo65
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« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2019, 03:59:23 PM »

     I'll do some more searching tonight, maybe it's the words I'm using in the search feature.     

   Yes...the search feature here is touchy. I've had searches come back a zero, then took out a word or two, and have a bunch of threads pop up!
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milne
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« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2019, 08:52:59 PM »

Mo,
    Got creative with the search function,   the result,   learning more about the issue and other fitting practices.
 
  Greasy fingers and a lap top don't mix, as I have found to my detriment.....
 Sometimes it's better to walk away and be patient and research  Wink
Now doin the same with bearing servicing topic.

Thank you Sir........

Cheers

Col
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milne
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« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2019, 11:29:23 PM »

Mo, the voice of reason  !!!!!

Further to your patiently worded piece of advice on the search function,
 Seek and thou shall find  ( or something similar along those lines)

Managed to have a productive afternoon, the phone stayed quiet and my computer literacy has now come up a peg or two
from the depths of " Neandertholism" where it hovered a day or so ago   Grin    (not sure if that's a word or not, but certainly impressive all the same)

Stripped my second 113h down, bagged everything appropriately, then decided, to use the " Mo function"  sorry I mean the search function properly
 and came up with some methods of bearing removal.
So with bothe 113h's at hand and her indoors still out shopping, used the suggestion of bending the lip of the Penn tool, and managed to ease them out on
both tail plates, then, with another old suggestion, using a nail, filing the flat part down so it drops thru the centre of the bearing, held onto by my pliers
I got under the bearings and with minimal twisting, out they both popped.
Of course I would attempt the easier ones first, that's the kind of bloke I am  Grin
Reading that the head plate pressed in bearings were sometimes more difficult, and sometimes some U-bute bearing pullers were needed in some instances, gave me a little shudder,,,,  So, on wards I went, I used my tried and trusted pliers and nail that was successful on the tail plate bearings, at first a little bit of resistance was felt, but I carefully persisted and out they both popped with relative ease,  maybe pure luck that over it's journey it was well lubed as not to have seized inside the cup,  Don't care, was due some luck.........
One thing, and I'm not sure about this, but after the bagging of the parts, I found what looked like a washer, either brass or copper, it stumped me until I remember reading about shimming underneath the bearing for spool slop,,, perfect size and has the bearing imprint mark on one face,  the little sucker must have jumped out and I probably missed it with the euphoria of the bearing popping out easily   Grin

A second search of the forum revealed Sal's dentist like tools for removing the shield on the bearings,,, Brilliant idea, so I shall be visiting a few hardware
shops/ tool type shops and find myself a similar type tool so I can complete the bearing strip down.
Successful afternoon,  and great wealth of information available on hand,    with only a bit of computer skills required    Grin

Col
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mhc
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« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2019, 01:33:37 AM »

There is a thread on here about a work around for the limited functionality of the site's search function - but I can't find it.  Roll Eyes Grin
(Sorry, I couldn't resist that) Jurelometer explains how to do more specific searches using external search engines on this thread https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17305.0

Mike
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It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.
milne
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« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2019, 01:52:58 AM »

Hi Mike,
             My computer literacy today has improved four fold this weekend !
      I'll give that a try.
I see they were saying that the specific search for the words you type in, may not come up for a few pages,
There lies my problem, An attention span that's barely lasts 10 minutes, and the info that comes up first, is dam interesting,
I forget what I originally searched for   Grin


Col
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mo65
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« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2019, 04:00:56 AM »

Glad to hear things are coming together Col! Oh...and keep that grease off the keyboard! Grin
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milne
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« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2019, 10:12:47 PM »

Hi all,
          Currently have all 4 bearings removed from both of of my 113h projects.
         But having a great deal of difficulty removing the bearing spring shield. I want to completely strip these bearings down in both reels,
        for all intensive purposes they may very well be OK, but no real way of telling I guess till I strip them down.
        I researched and read a couple of posts on the issue, I have tried a fish hook as recommended in one post, not with any joy with that method, so
        I ordered a dental hook which I found off Ebay which should arrive next week, which may be easier to use.   But they sure are tricky wee suckers
         to remove,,, maybe it's just my tecnique,  I have removed a few over my time, but on much larger bearings, the size of these Penn bearings arent
         very conducive to fat fingers and tired old eyes !
         Any trick or best practice to get these wee suckers out guys Huh?

  Col
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milne
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2019, 12:33:18 AM »

OK,
     Put up my previous post a little too early.
     Decided to give it one more try before my "dentist pick" arrived in the post,
    Used a modified treble hook, a single sided razor blade and  a illuminated magnifying glass,
     I take my hat off to you guys doing this day in day out, while practice makes perfect,  Patience to me seems to be the key.
    One more set of bearings to strip down for my other 113h, but I'll wait for my tool to arrive, then get these little fella's cleaned out and re packed
    and re installed.   
    A frustrating but satisfying wee task !

  Col
     


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milne
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« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2019, 01:56:39 AM »

I've been making a wee bit of progress,
I took Rudy's advice, (thank you), I decided to get an aluminium spool and it sure does make the whole package lighter and I think better
to fish with. Randy came thru with another identical set up and I decided to get a Tiburon frame for my wide while I was at it.
I luv the 113h size, its perfect for a lot of the fishing I do, so having two standard and one wide, I think that should cover the range.

I am going to trick out the insides of my other 113h and my wide with the same as my first one, d/dogs S/S gear etc etc, it adds to the set up costs of these reels, but I figure that they will last another lifetime, well after I pull up stumps and pass them on, and will sure give me some fun in the mean time.

I'm yet to resolve the handle slop issue completely, but will also be ordering some delrin washers along with the other internals to play with while assembling the other two 113's. The only other issue I have is a lack of free spool, or not like I expected, especially after doing the bearings as well, something else to tinker with.........

Col


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Crow
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« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2019, 04:37:28 AM »

Lookin' good !!
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« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2019, 04:49:49 AM »

Great builds, Col! With maroon plates, the silver frame is by far my favorite. A member did a 6/0 thusly, and I was sold. You should be getting really good freespool- what did you put in the bearings?

John
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milne
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« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2019, 05:02:46 AM »

Hi John,  I completely stripped the bearing, soaked them, then re packed with grease.
       I'm not to concerned at the minute, it's all sounding nice and tight, no noises. I used that 7 + 1 drag system on this one.
 As mentioned, I've got to have a play back inside with a delrin washer and it seems even with the drag washers, I do have a lot of turns on the star drag
which I don't re call when it had the 5 stack system.  but, it's looking really good now with that red spool and way lighter.
I know that I will end up doing a couple of 6/0's, I call it an addiction !!!!!

Col
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