alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Understanding rods
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
August 19, 2019, 06:05:10 AM *
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Author Topic: Understanding rods  (Read 863 times)
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sharkman
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« on: June 14, 2019, 12:25:52 PM »

I need some help trying to understanding rod lingo. So I purchase a Okuma CJ-C-801L Cedros rod. The rod is rated for 8-15 mono, light power, with medium rod taper. The rod was marketed as halibut, steelhead, sturgeon rod. This confused me because these all come to mind as large fish. I originally bought the rod for dock fishing for sheepheads, but after reading this and watching video of rod in action made me wonder of other possible applications. Could this rod possibly be used for mangrove snapper fishing with braid?
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Swami805
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 02:36:17 PM »

Seems like every rod manufacturer has different meanings for the terms so it makes it hard to determine the characteristics of different brands.
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Newell Nut
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 02:05:52 AM »

Typically the maximum drag setting is 1/3 of the higher line rating number. In you case 1/3 of 15 would be a max drag of 5 lb. Higher drag pressure may break the rod. Sure you could catch river mangroves but not offshore mangroves due to the size difference. A lot of the ratings have insurance built in because a lot of people simply do not know how to use a rod correctly. Seeker may sell me a blank that is rated 40-80 but when they build the rod and sell it under the Seeker name they down rate it slightly like a 30-70 for example.

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alantani
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 05:28:19 AM »

i've had discussions with several rod manufacturers about a more standard label.  i doubt that anything will come of it. 
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Gfish
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 08:51:17 AM »

At least some of it seems to marketing hype, esp. when they name off fish species. Maybe thinking about what Newell Nut was talkin about and the terminal tackle to be used, casting distance desired, the need for a soft casting touch for bait, etc., would suffice.
 I gotta a $30 Shimano 8.5' "TRD" about 15 yrs. old, from Big 5 Sporting Goods, that's superb for reef fishing. Med. action, alota guides on it for a cheapo rod and it handles 3/4-2oz. lures and bait real well. Put a $300+ dollar Revo Toro Beast on her and it's the cat's meow for yak castin.
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oc1
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 11:54:12 AM »

I have never understood the line rating on rods.  In the age of spectra it gets even more confusing.  The species thing is just silly.  

The number that speaks to me is the lure weight number and the action (fast/slow) because they sort of tells you what the rod will feel like.
-steve
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 11:54:53 AM by oc1 » Logged
Gfish
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2019, 12:15:31 PM »

Yeah. readin this again, Sharkmans Okuma rod marketing( halibut, steelhead and sturgeon) don't make sense. Steelhead would be that TRD I described above. Sturgeon and halibut might be the same rod for a boat, shorter and much stouter. Sturgeon from the shore for me would be a 11'+ surf type rod that'ed handle 6-12oz. wts. for casting.
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Keta
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2019, 01:36:10 PM »

. The rod is rated for 8-15 mono, light power, with medium rod taper. The rod was marketed as halibut, steelhead, sturgeon rod. This confused me because these all come to mind as large fish.


California halibut are not large like Pacific halibut.  I fish for steelhead with a 9' 10# rod and have landed a lot of larger fish, most when I lived in in Alaska and one wild fish close to 20# on the Wilson River in Oregon, but the average steelhead is 8-10 pounds.  My sturgeon gear is 6-6.5' 40# and my Pacific halibut gear is 5.5'-6.5' 50#.  

i've had discussions with several rod manufacturers about a more standard label.  i doubt that anything will come of it. 

Wouldn't that be nice!   
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 01:37:36 PM by Keta » Logged

Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2019, 08:55:55 PM »

Steve (OC1) - this thread made me think about - you may not understand rod ratings (as if any of us can make sense of it) but you were doing some really neat stuff with creating your own blanks, etc.  I remember reading terms like "modulus" and "elasticity" and other crazy high tech composite stuff.  Are you still playing with it?  I hope so!  With your skills I figured you were one step away from building an experimental aircraft.
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2019, 09:06:39 PM »

I've always thought they could simplify it by giving a drag rating for the rod along with weight it will toss. I am certain this would be messed up also... Jeff
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droppedit
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2019, 03:53:48 AM »

A picture of the rod/blank (loaded under the recommended weight) on a deflection graph would answer many questions. Seems to me if the manufacturer would add this in either a tag on the rod or on a website there would be more happier anglers out there. I love the way Kilsong has posted the videos of Black Hole rods on the test block and wish more did that.


Dave
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drumbum
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2019, 08:57:03 AM »

Test curves.
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jurelometer
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2019, 12:15:05 PM »

i've had discussions with several rod manufacturers about a more standard label.  i doubt that anything will come of it. 

There is a system out there.   It is called Common Cents.  It started out for fly rods, but works for conventional and spinning as well.    The rod's butt is attached  to a surface above and parallel to the floor.  Weight is added to the tip until the tip  has moved toward the floor a specified distance (30% of the rod length if I remember correctly).  Now the tip deflection angle is measured with the weight still on the tip.  These two numbers give you a quantifiable description of to amount of weight it takes to load the rod, and  the action of the rod. 

The equipment required: a plastic bag and a bunch of zinc based US pennies for weights, plus a PDF printout of  the deflection angle scale.

These results  can be compared between rods and a  consensus emerges about what common cents numbers are preferred  for specific uses.  There are databases on the rodbuilding websites with the common cents rating for many commercially built fly rods and blanks.  So if somebody hands me a generic fly rod with no labeling  whatsoever,  I  can fairly accurately determine which fly line size/weight it should use, and even have a good idea which rods it is similar to.  I think that a few fly rod blank manufacturers even publish their common cents numbers.  But not the big name brands.

High quality, repeatable numbers  can be obtained  without the  cooperation of the manufacturer.  The downside for the rod companies promoting such a system  is is that the ratings can show inconsistencies in manufacturing (the numbers might not match from one rod to the next for  the same model),  and lower priced alternatives  to the high dollar gear can be more easily found by the consumer.   I could watch a fishing show with my favorite celebrity, and when he/she recommends a sponsor's rod for a specific situation, I could simply look up the performance numbers and see what my other choices were  at various price points and quality levels. 

-J
 
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jurelometer
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2019, 12:22:05 PM »

https://www.common-cents.info/

In addition to load and action,  there is also a way to measure the frequency (AKA speed-  how snappy a rod is),  but it appears  that frequency testing gets more difficult to measure as the rods get bigger.

-J
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sharkman
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2019, 05:37:59 PM »

Oc1 I usually look at lure wt or recommend sinker wt. Neither of these are on the rod or posted in the catalog. I even called Okuma and they didn’t know either. The rod has a very similar action to ugly stik.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 02:41:55 AM by sharkman » Logged
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