alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial 140/145/146 squidder
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
September 26, 2020, 08:03:32 PM *
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Author Topic: 140/145/146 squidder  (Read 116344 times)
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« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2015, 02:15:40 AM »

Well, I ordered and received bearings, side plate ring, drag washers and dog.  Spent more on parts than the reel will ever be worth.  My Lord, what have I become?

Anyway, I oiled and installed the new bearings and gave it another test spin without the clutch or drive.  The noise went away, but the spin time is almost exactly the same as before.  Go figure.

I tried to put the new ring on the inner left side plate.  I could push the ring into place and hold it there but as soon as I let go it would pop off.  So, I held it down while screwing the side plate to the cross bars.  With everything secure the ring would flex and separate from the side plate at the top of the reel between the cross bars.  Either the ring is too small or the plastic side plate it too big.  Sort of mysterious.  Not wanting to start shaving down the plastic side plate to make it fit I just put the broken ring back on the reel.

Installed the carbontex drag washers. The star may be bottoming out on the side plate now but I won't be sure it is a problem until the stack settles in and I set the drag tension.  The star has a cut-out but the ridge inside the cut-out may be worn down a bit.  I think either a shim or thicker washer between the bridge and main gear or a slightly taller spacing sleeve might fix it.

I've been thinking that the handle looked too big for the reel and finally realized that the handles had been switched on the 140 and a 3/0.  Don't remember when or why that seemed like a good idea. 


I reloaded most of the old 40# nylon squidding line for backing but will make space for 150 yards of 30# PowerPro and a shock leader.  Pictured is the 140 and its greenie sister reel.  They shared a ten foot Harnell rod until housing and transporting ten foot rods became incompatible with the life style.  Wish I had it back now.  The Penn 710 fared much better through four decades of neglect.  It was not put up wet and salty, and it was in a plastic bag for most of that time.

-steve
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Porthos
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« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2015, 04:41:24 PM »

Well, I ordered and received bearings, side plate ring, drag washers and dog.  Spent more on parts than the reel will ever be worth.  My Lord, what have I become?...

...I tried to put the new ring on the inner left side plate.  I could push the ring into place and hold it there but as soon as I let go it would pop off.  So, I held it down while screwing the side plate to the cross bars.  With everything secure the ring would flex and separate from the side plate at the top of the reel between the cross bars.  Either the ring is too small or the plastic side plate it too big.  Sort of mysterious.  Not wanting to start shaving down the plastic side plate to make it fit I just put the broken ring back on the reel...


What you've become can be explained by the words "Welcome to the Dark Side."  Grin

The plates/ring situation is that your plates have swollen. Filing is the solution:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=667.0
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« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2015, 12:07:22 AM »

Wow, what a relief Porthos !!  I was afraid it was the Addled Side.

But thank you mostly for the link about shaving the side plate.  I'm not set up to turn them but going after it with a fine mill bastard file should work.  Since it is easy to do a test fit as you go along you can identify the high spots keep and everything round.

This reel was definitely kept in damp conditions but I'm surprised to learn that the plastic would swell.  This would indicate that side plates of 1966 were still being made of bakelite.  I'm no chemist but believe Bakelite swells with age while most more modern plastics tend to shrink. There is a reference to jigmaster side plates being made of Delrin in the early 1970's but Delrin and Celcon (same difference) became popular for precision molding beginning in the early 1960's.  Anybody know when Penn switched from Bakelite to something else?

So anyway, my squidder drag works fine but I notice that the star does not have to be turned very far to go from no drag to full drag.  Didn't measure precisely but think it is about 180 degrees.  With the old  drag washers the star would move about 360 degrees.  Maybe it is because the carbon fiber is a harder material than the old leather washers.  To be safe, it needs just a tad more clearance between the star and the side plate; perhaps a millimeter. I might try putting both the new carbon fiber and old leather washer between the bridge and main gear. 

I tried casting it with an eleven foot ulua pole.  The sweet spot for this rod is about six ounces of weight.  I've become too decrepit to comfortably throw six ounces and was getting 75 measured yards.  That's a bit more than the 3/0 that normally lives on the ulua pole, but the 3/0 is spooled with heavier line.  The next step is to put together a three ounce rod for the squidder and 710 reels.  A three ounce rod may actually cast as far, or farther, than the six ounce because I will be able to put my back into it without worrying about injury.  At least that's the theory and the impetus for this project.
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« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2016, 08:16:23 PM »

how does one actually take the silver inner frame off? 






In the original post it shows the inner frame removed.  I can't seem to figure it out.  Any opinions?
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« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2016, 08:35:34 PM »

I didn't know that delrin and celcon are the same stuff. I worked at a bearing shop back in the day and we made bearings from celcon, it was a white plastic that we machined bearing races from and used glass balls. Corrosion resistance was the thing as they were used in film processing equipment.
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« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2016, 10:31:15 PM »

how does one actually take the silver inner frame off?  






In the original post it shows the inner frame removed.  I can't seem to figure it out.  Any opinions?

There is a thumb screw on the outside of the handle plate --

Just unscrew it -- it is spring loaded, and will not come completely out --

After unscrewing, just pull the screw out slightly with your fingers -- and turn the maroon side plate backwards about 1/4" -- the plate comes right off the inner ring

Opposite technique to get it back on -- this is called a quick release for the purpose of changing out spools during fishing.

Be careful of those bakelite sideplates -- prone to breakage pretty easily during disassembly, if not careful.

Let us know if you were successful...

Best,

Fred

« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 11:37:44 PM by foakes » Logged

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« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2016, 02:09:26 AM »

You are correct Mark.  I had to do more reading to find that Delrin is a homopolymer while Celcon is a copolymer (whatever than means). 

The local hardware store has a nice assortment of white plastic washers that could be useful.  They are thin, slick and more rigid than regular nylon.  Wish there was some way to tell if they're made of Delrin or what.

-steve
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« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2016, 11:29:14 AM »

Thanks guy!!!!   Grin  The Squider is completely reassembled.

I took that bugger apart for no reason about 10 years ago. Could figure it out  Undecided  Soi just put everything into a sandwich bag for a later date.  the only minor issue I notice the Dog is not reliable. oh well.
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2016, 11:31:42 AM »

What do you mean by that, does it miss at times?
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« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2016, 11:52:35 AM »

Yea it skips. i'm quite certain the lil spring stayed seated.
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2016, 12:16:12 PM »

Looks like you already knew what I was going to ask Smiley. Try a new one, they get weak with time:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/14C-140.aspx
I would also get a new dog while you're at it, $4 well spent:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15-140.aspx


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 11:20:54 AM by mizmo67 » Logged

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« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2016, 01:44:26 PM »

yea you are probably right. good call.   Wink
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« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2016, 01:44:46 PM »

Sal is right, new spring and dog never hurt --

Many times though, it is just excess grease, or a little crud on the spring, dog, under gear washer, or bridge plate decking.

If cleaned completely and properly, with a drop of oil under the dog and pivot nub, and the spring slightly stretched -- and you still experience a lazy dog -- then the spring is the culprit.

If not, and it works crisply after service -- you are good to go.

Sometimes during reassembly, we will get too much drag or gear grease down there -- and that impedes the dog from operating properly -- especially with these tiny coil springs.

Best,

Fred



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D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

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« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2016, 03:21:03 AM »

Thanks so much for really informative instructions, and for readers comments too.Glad this site is still active.
i have been passed down a squidder 140 from a deceased friend, plus Penn 85's and 78's. I have been using comparable parts from these to replace too worn ones in the squidder, as not doing much sea fishing nor willing to spend a lot limits what I will do. I think I have removed the 'wobble' in the handle bearing as it rotates, but hopefully some slight movement in and out(should there be when  not any  pressure on discs, presumably no movement when pressure fully applied doesn't mean there is too much wear in the discs)at the moment a complete turn/cycle of the star wheel seems to engage these discs properly(but not to the point where the spool totally stops I believe should be ok).....I could  I suppose  always maybe add another of those discs or the spacing washer that is not concentric? to take up slack in and out?
I have proper reel oil plus Teflon reel grease but am amazed to read one of your readers gets a 65 second spin. At the moment the gears, bearings etc are all covered in a  type of lithium grease I presume which has preserved all  this. People have written  references to STP additive-as a printer I use it-or Wynns oil additive - to mix with Alvania grease and this makes that "extend' , so it flows a lot more, longer chain molecules or something become formed.

Hopefully in Uk I could find some extra spools, otherwise it would be a waste of the quick change facility. Incidentally I also have been passed down 3  Intrepid seastreaks with similar quick change so am amalgamating into 1 good one so then also will have spare spools so it could be interesting comparing the two.The ingenuity of these reel engineers is quite amazing. I must find a www that explains the history of reel development design -any recommendations?

Though tempted to find a cheap magnetic fixed spool reel-eg xmas present- hopefully these reels will introduce me to using multipliers to see how I get on with them-nervous about backlash over runs etc but can always go back to big baitcasters.Does it sound as if I'm going the right way with repairs and learning? I will still set up an 85 and 78, but a Senator 6 also passed to me is far too big for me so might trade it in . Fixed spool beach casting on a windy day does tend to leave loads of line blowing in the wind just before casting and before tightening up, maybe multipliers are so bad at that.Cheers everyone.
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« Reply #89 on: January 28, 2017, 02:46:05 PM »

I know this is an old thread and I'm glad it's available. I rebuilt an old black 140 I picked up for a few dollars. I couldn't figure out how the dog worked with that little hole and post. When in doubt I always come here. With the above help I was able to figure it out. I can't tell you how much I appreciate Alto and Alan and many others sharing their knowledge. If you're out there thank you.
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