CASTING WITH BRAID ON CONVENTIONAL REEL

Started by Cor, January 07, 2020, 12:40:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Gfish

#15
Oh cool! Great photo. You can really see the Yellow in the tails.
A less expensive but more time consuming option to old braid might be to reverse the ends.
Opps, add-on: you'ed have ta spool the old side of the braid onto another reel that you're gonna use, to end up with the good side, on the outside a the spool.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

oc1


Leerie18

It is indeed a horrible sound and feeling when that braid digs in the reel, snaps and the lure cartwheels off into the distance, never to be seen again...

I appreciate the benefits of both braid and mono and to mitigate their respective drawbacks, have resolved to go with braid on one reel and mono topshot on the other:

* Mono for distance, blind-casting grunt work or gusty conditions
* Braid for sightcasting and /or heavy close-in action.

What a fantastic pic, knee-wobbling stuff if your lure is pulled in front of them and they are turned on! That is if it is not on a busy day, where the likelihood is that a barrage of iron would rain down and the shoal would sound and scatter with possibly only one or two hook-ups... >:(

Keep drip-feeding us those wonderful pictures!  ;)
LBG addict!

Cor

Quote from: Leerie18 on January 08, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
.........
Keep drip-feeding us those wonderful pictures!  ;)

Most fishing spots will become overrun with people!
Cornelis

steelfish

hey Cor, I've been casting with braid since few years and I know what you mean, but can I ask what reel are you using and what pound test of braid are you having problems with?

I dont use anything smaller than 50# braid, mostly 65#, 80# and 100#, but not because I really need those strong lines but for what Mo just said, because of the more friendly diameter and corrosion resistance for rocky bottoms.

try to find braid lines of 8 strands that are marketed as round lines instead of flat ones, on small baitcasters and casting reels that I use to cast lures as the komodo 364 Im using 80# braid, on a saltist 20h Im using 50# braid (but thinking to change it for 65#), trinidad 16 has 65# line, okuma solterra 10 with 80#, on okuma komodo and saltist 20H I normally cast 3/4oz lures to 2oz lures, from 3oz, 4oz and heavier lures I switch to trinidad and solterra 10slx.
my abu garcia 6500 c3 and abu record 60 have 50# braid.


The Baja Guy

David Hall

I have not tried this yet but I have heard that getting the braid wet before casting is recommended.  Anyone know what that's about?

Cor

#21
Quote from: steelfish on January 08, 2020, 04:55:05 PM
hey Cor, I've been casting with braid since few years and I know what you mean, but can I ask what reel are you using and what pound test of braid are you having problems with?

I dont use anything smaller than 50# braid, mostly 65#, 80# and 100#, but not because I really need those strong lines but for what Mo just said, because of the more friendly diameter and corrosion resistance for rocky bottoms.

try to find braid lines of 8 strands that are marketed as round lines instead of flat ones, on small baitcasters and casting reels that I use to cast lures as the komodo 364 Im using 80# braid, on a saltist 20h Im using 40# braid (but thinking to change it for 65#), trinidad 16 has 65# line, okuma solterra 10 with 80#, on okuma komodo and saltist 20H I normally cast 3/4oz lures to 2oz lures, from 3oz, 4oz and heavier lures I switch to trinidad and solterra 10slx.
my abu garcia 6500 c3 and abu record 60 have 50# braid.

Sure you may ask!
Above I explain what line I use  https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30189.msg351021#msg351021
I spool this on Shimano Tranx 500HG, levelwinder that has a static mag.

There are many good comments and ideas here and I'll still go through the lot and then probably experiment to see if a solution is not to be found.
I somehow don't think going stronger then 80lb is a good idea, how do I ever break it off the bottom if I need to....mimmm?    Maybe that is not  a problem, I'll see.

I have also used braid on "full size reels" mainly 40 and 50 wide Daiwas and Shimano's and had the same experience.    Even with 100mt mono topshot the braid became a problem.   For some time I tried JB 80lb hollow but that had a similar problem and a lot more because I was using a reel without a good cast control and I then decided that braid on conventional reels definitely did not work.   I now know it can work under certain circumstances, but remains problematic.  

Today I went fishing for squid, they are small squid and I probably need no more then 20lb line, but use 50 lb  braid on a ABU GARCIA 6600C4 and an extremely light stick.   Interestingly when dropping the jigs to the bottom with the reel in freespool, I noticed the braid constantly sticking to the reel and actually stopping the decent every now and again with a "jerk"

I cast 2 to 4 oz but 4 is too heavy for my current rig, but sometimes wind conditions necessitate that.

Quote from: David Hall on January 08, 2020, 06:20:14 PM
I have not tried this yet but I have heard that getting the braid wet before casting is recommended.  Anyone know what that's about?
Yes, I have experienced that as well, why I dunno?

I will eventually write some kind of summary or conclusion for those who have an interest in this.

Cornelis

philaroman

I'll give it a shot -- two points un/less-mentioned:

1) PE line just tends to have more uneven surface & catch on itself more
braid isn't smooth like mono -- it has "micro-ridges" (if it's some non-braided PE variant,
it's still not a single filament & gets hairy much quicker than braid, achieving the same "rough" effect)
in simplest terms, mono "wants to come off the spool" because of the stiffness & stretch,
while, braid "wants to stay on the spool" because of the rougher surface & digging in

2) nylon absorbs water straight into the single filament, itself, in a steady/even/progressive/predictable manner
contrarily, PE carries much more water on the surface and/or temporarily trapped in the braiding;
different sections may get differently water-logged/shed (hence, heavier/lighter) at different times; AND
surface water on the line may act as a lubricant OR weak adhesive, depending on situation

your decades of experience w/ nylon mono created a complex algorithm in the back of your brain,
that tells you how your line will behave, without conscious thought (kinda' like driving on "brain auto-pilot")
give braid the same number of decades you gave mono & it will be equally trouble-free  8)

SoCalAngler

#23
Okay,

A few findings by myself then casting braided lines.

Wound tight is right when spooling. But, on the other hand if the braid was spooled correctly from the start the issue is not coming from the braid digging into it's self. If you have ever seen a reel locked up because of the braid digging into the other braid on the spool you would have to notice that it doesn't happen in the first several layers of line. This occurs deep into the braid, most often depending on the spools size about 1/4 to 1/2 of the spools depth or more.

Braid "sticking" to the spool really does not happen unless you get some sort of material that attaches to the braid. Jellyfish and other such soft skinned animals like some types of plankton and such can leave a residue or parts of their body attached to the line. But this stickiness will happen to mono lines also. This can and most often will make either line stick to it's self once the line dries.

Most if not all of the "stickiness" I have found comes from two things. First, when the braided lines dry salt crystals develop between the layers of line. Wetting the spool really does not help here because the modern braids do not absorb water, so only the first layers get wet leaving the lower layers still dry. Second, and I feel is the most common problem is that the braid under pressure pinches it's self. More times than not I get the "stickiness" after I have caught a fish under drag pressure and not when just casting out and reeling in. To me I know the braid pinches it's self more when winding in under load. Much more so than just winding in a lure or bait.

99% of the fishing I do is from a boat, much different than land based guys, so I can only relate my observations. Every time I head out on a boat I make sure I let line out then motoring to the grounds further than I can cast, be it mono or braid. Mono will become softer and limper because it absorbs water, the braid will not have the stickiness for my casts, because the salt and pinched line has been taken care of before my first cast. Sorry land based guys you will have to figure something else out.

Okay, coated braid. Most braided lines that are coated is for one reason and one reason only, they don't want to show the "fuzz" and broken filaments on their line. There is no reason to coat a braided line. So why do some manufactures do it? Better for the line? Nope. Better for the reel? Nope. Makes the braid last longer? Nope. IMO it is to sell a lesser line at a higher cost. Also the coating should make the line less "sticky" than more.

I have always been a proponent of long topshots for reels I cast often and my braid days started way before Izorline came out with their line of braid. Remember SpiderWire? I got my first braided line cut from those guys. My braid use has been much longer than I have been coming to this website. I have been using it about around 20 years now. But, with that said do what works for you.

Cor

#24
Quote from: philaroman on January 09, 2020, 05:16:28 AM
I'll give it a shot -- two points un/less-mentioned:

1) PE line just tends to have more uneven surface & catch on itself more
braid isn't smooth like mono -- it has "micro-ridges" (if it's some non-braided PE variant,
it's still not a single filament & gets hairy much quicker than braid, achieving the same "rough" effect)
in simplest terms, mono "wants to come off the spool" because of the stiffness & stretch,
while, braid "wants to stay on the spool" because of the rougher surface & digging in

2) nylon absorbs water straight into the single filament, itself, in a steady/even/progressive/predictable manner
contrarily, PE carries much more water on the surface and/or temporarily trapped in the braiding;
different sections may get differently water-logged/shed (hence, heavier/lighter) at different times; AND
surface water on the line may act as a lubricant OR weak adhesive, depending on situation

your decades of experience w/ nylon mono created a complex algorithm in the back of your brain,
that tells you how your line will behave, without conscious thought (kinda' like driving on "brain auto-pilot")
give braid the same number of decades you gave mono & it will be equally trouble-free  8)

Nicely put, I don't always have the way with words.

I never considered that mono also absorbs water, does this also apply to the various composite mono's?

"mono wants to come off the spool" because of the stiffness & stretch,"    
That is precisely why mono is the better casting line and off course after so many year of use we know how to handle it.

"PE carries much more water on the surface and/or temporarily trapped in the braiding;
different sections may get differently water-logged/shed (hence, heavier/lighter) at different times; AND
surface water on the line may act as a lubricant"

The lubricating effect of water on mono is well known.    In dry hot windy conditions some guys wet their fingers before casting otherwise friction will burn the line.      I have noticed that braid also likes to be wet, it somehow casts a bit better, but also for the same issue as mono, friction will burn or melt uncoated PE, more so then mono as it has a lower melting point.


SoCalAngler  uses the words "pinched line" which is probably a more appropriate description of what I called "Sticky"   It's not sticky like jam.  ;) It is only a very light effect, but enough to cause a serious blow up.    I'll see if I can illustrate it with a video.
Cornelis

CapeFish

I reckon it is just pretty unforgiving to the way it is wound on to the reel. If there is not enough tension it digs into the layers below that are not tightly spooled. It is difficult to spool it evenly and tight all day long. When you do even slightly fluff the cast there is a much higher chance of it digging in than mono because it is so soft. Mono is just way more forgiving. It is also possible that braid comes of a conventional reel slightly differently than mono? Mono has some memory and so a slight coil unrolls from the reel always, where as braid runs of very directly. If the spool is not spinning fast enough, it will dig in, where as the mono has that added coil as shock absorber. Every time you thumb the spool a bit too much there is a greater risk of the braid biting in too deep. Sorry I am struggling to explain myself, not sure if this is making any sense.

None of this is a problem on a spinning reel as the line leaves the spool totally different. The rod guide setup on a spinning reel is important though and also the use of leaders.

Jeri

For distance casting, you are surely going to continue to have problems using a conventional over a spinning reel - why not just accept that it is generally unsuitable, and change reels. The rock and surf fraternity have embraced 'grinder and braid' over the last few years in southern Africa, and it has done wonders for the sport. Sure there is a need for a specifically designed rod, but the same applies in reverse.

The technology and strength of spinning reels has come on in leaps and bounds, and now they can be used in virtually every situation. In the UK surf scene, there used to be a huge 'snobbery' aspect about folks not mastering conventional reels, but that has since dissolved with the much better spinning reels and use of braid - distances are now pretty much equal or better with braid.

Cor

Quote from: Jeri on January 09, 2020, 07:00:21 AM
For distance casting, you are surely going to continue to have problems using a conventional over a spinning reel - why not just accept that it is generally unsuitable, and change reels. The rock and surf fraternity have embraced 'grinder and braid' over the last few years in southern Africa, and it has done wonders for the sport. Sure there is a need for a specifically designed rod, but the same applies in reverse.

The technology and strength of spinning reels has come on in leaps and bounds, and now they can be used in virtually every situation. In the UK surf scene, there used to be a huge 'snobbery' aspect about folks not mastering conventional reels, but that has since dissolved with the much better spinning reels and use of braid - distances are now pretty much equal or better with braid.
Yeah Jeri, I hear you but I am not going to change over to a whole new technology where I am at a stage in my life where I actually want to get rid of tackle, not acquire more stuff.
Spinning reels have disadvantages as well, but let's leave that for another thread, or maybe when I visit for some coffee one day :)
Cornelis

Jeri

Quote from: Cor on January 09, 2020, 07:08:24 AM

Yeah Jeri, I hear you but I am not going to change over to a whole new technology where I am at a stage in my life where I actually want to get rid of tackle, not acquire more stuff.
Spinning reels have disadvantages as well, but let's leave that for another thread, or maybe when I visit for some coffee one day :)

It is just not logical that to persevere with a system that is not working because of the very nature of the braid, that you should discount change. We have folks here casting with slim braids with 'spinning' rods and small lures in the 2-3oz range to well over 120 metres - would solve all your problems at a stroke.

But as you say, a divergence from your thread.

The kettle is on for coffee ..............  :)

oc1

Quote from: Jeri on January 09, 2020, 07:34:28 AM
We have folks here casting with slim braids with 'spinning' rods and small lures in the 2-3oz range to well over 120 metres -

I have never cast anything 120 meters in my life.  But right now I want to cast 1/8 to 3/16 oz jigs and was willing to switch to spinning gear for more distance.  However, the spinner did not get more distance than a sixty year old conventional reel; both with the same 10 ft blank and both with 10 to 20 lb Spectra.
-steve