alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Penn 113n US Senator Drag Question
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 06, 2021, 02:59:15 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Penn 113n US Senator Drag Question  (Read 982 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
oldmanjoe
Photo Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1219



« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 03:52:50 PM »

Huh?    Is there 3 # 8 tension washers in that stack ?    I think if you remove one or two you should get what you want .
  Another way is to remove the first friction in the bottom of the cup and just start with the steel washer . How thick is a friction and how thick is a steel ?
Logged

Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare
RowdyW
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3110



« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2021, 07:31:48 PM »

Huh?    Is there 3 # 8 tension washers in that stack ?    I think if you remove one or two you should get what you want .
  Another way is to remove the first friction in the bottom of the cup and just start with the steel washer . How thick is a friction and how thick is a steel ?
Joe, that way you will be rubbing the steel washer on the steel main gear whenever the drag is slipping. A better way would be to remove the top fiber washer & then the top two metal washers will rotate as one.      Rudy
Logged
oldmanjoe
Photo Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1219



« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2021, 08:50:07 PM »

Huh?    Is there 3 # 8 tension washers in that stack ?    I think if you remove one or two you should get what you want .
  Another way is to remove the first friction in the bottom of the cup and just start with the steel washer . How thick is a friction and how thick is a steel ?
Joe, that way you will be rubbing the steel washer on the steel main gear whenever the drag is slipping. A better way would be to remove the top fiber washer & then the top two metal washers will rotate as one.      Rudy
   Good catch , I should have said pull the steel and go back to back frictions on the bottom.   I wounder what the original start up drag was ?
Logged

Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare
day0ne
Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 813


« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2021, 11:16:25 PM »

A bunch of you seem to be confusing the 113HN with the 113H. The 113HN has the Versa-Drag setup which is different from the setup of a 113H.The total drag on the 113HN can be changed by moving the washers around. Having the metal washer touching the main gear is OK. the following is the different setups for the Versa-Drag:

Light- metal-metal-metal-fiber-fiber-fiber
Medium- metal-fiber-metal-metal-fiber-fiber
Heavy- metal-fiber-metal-fiber-metal-fiber

Remember, these different setups change the total amount of drag. Here is the schematic:

https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/113hn.pdf
Logged

David


"Lately it occurs to me: What a long, strange trip it's been." - R. Hunter
Swami805
Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 3714


« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2021, 11:50:11 PM »

I think he's looking to reduce the height of the stack since the drag doesn't back off all the way. Making the metal washers thinner should accomplish that with the versa drag or regular 113H.
Logged
oldmanjoe
Photo Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1219



« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2021, 12:23:05 AM »

     Huh?     I thought this was the reel  https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/us113n.pdf
     Part #   9 would have been my first choice ,but that ball bearing stumped me .     On the hn schematics # 9 has foot notes  *** .
Logged

Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare
RowdyW
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3110



« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2021, 12:25:26 AM »



Light- metal-metal-metal-fiber-fiber-fiber
Medium- metal-fiber-metal-metal-fiber-fiber
Heavy- metal-fiber-metal-fiber-metal-fiber




That would be correct if you are counting from the top down. Having a metal washer which is keyed to the gear sleeve would be metal on a free spinning metal gear. You would have to somehow lock the main gear to the metal washer to stop it from grinding metal on metal. It doesn't matter if it's a 113h or a U S Sen. 113, the first washer on the bottom has to be fiber, versa drag or conventional drag.  
Logged
RowdyW
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3110



« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2021, 12:32:50 AM »

Joe, #9 is a spacer. The U S 113 has 6 bearings & uses a narrow spacer & the Baja uses narrow spacer on the 6 bearing model & a wide spacer on the older 5 bearing model.
Logged
jurelometer
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1126


« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2021, 12:54:10 AM »



     Huh?     I thought this was the reel  https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/us113n.pdf
     Part #   9 would have been my first choice ,but that ball bearing stumped me .     On the hn schematics # 9 has foot notes  *** .

I agree with Joe.

Maybe I am missing something here, but the 113HN still has a spacer sleeve (key  9 in schematic) like all the Penn star drags.  So why not grind down the spacer to make more stack adjustment clearance, just like any other Penn star drag?  I would say to check that the right length spacer was used, as Penn went to a shorter one after adding a handle shaft bearing in later models of the US Senator/Baja Special. Since this is a new reel, I guess we can assume a correct spacer.  I don't have an old or new  113hn, but the bearing must move in and out with the stack.  The star loads the inner race of the bearing, which pushes on the spacer, and so on.

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/9N-113HN.aspx

In terms of moving the washers around for versa-drag:  if there are the same number of parts, the stack height is not going to change.  And as others have noted(or was it me? Smiley ) in past threads - the whole versa-drag rearrangement does not seem beneficial in most, if not all cases.  By reducing the number of drag surfaces, you will get more granular tuning (more rotation of the star per lb of drag added), but to achieve the same level of drag with less surface you will need more clamping force -  more force with less surfaces means less smooth drag.  So it seems that most folks would be better off using the maximum configuration, and just not turning the star quite so far.  I think somebody claimed they liked the versa drag for a charter situation. They arranged the drag to have the lightest setting, so it was harder for the customers to set the drag too high  Roll Eyes


I must be missing something...

-J.
 

Logged
oldmanjoe
Photo Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1219



« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2021, 12:59:12 AM »

Joe, #9 is a spacer. The U S 113 has 6 bearings & uses a narrow spacer & the Baja uses narrow spacer on the 6 bearing model & a wide spacer on the older 5 bearing model.

   If we knew how much he need to get all the drag loose , would you shave the spacer ?       I do not play with all the penn so i am not familiar with all the spacer combinations .  

      Late on the Post button  Smiley
Logged

Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare
RowdyW
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3110



« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2021, 01:09:55 AM »

Cutting down the spacer height should work but the spacer sleeve is quite thin in the 6 bearing models.
Logged
oldmanjoe
Photo Group
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 1219



« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2021, 01:21:33 AM »

     If you back the drag nut off so it hits the handle , then remove the handle .    Take your caliper and measure end of stem to drag nut .  Now back off the drag nut until you get your free spool and remeasure  .   That should give you how much to remove from the sleeve .
Logged

Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
 Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare
RowdyW
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3110



« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2021, 01:55:00 AM »

The top metal drag washer #7H is thicker than the other 3 #7L metal washers. He could replace the #7H with another thinner #7L. Lots of ways to do this.
Logged
jurelometer
Sensei
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1126


« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2021, 02:07:22 AM »

Cutting down the spacer height should work but the spacer sleeve is quite thin in the 6 bearing models.

Ahh.  Got it.

One other thought: since the reels are new, it might be worthwhile to clean out all extra drag grease on the washers, and after reassembling, pull out a bunch of line at a heavy drag  setting.  You might get some more clearance once the drag settles in and or/a bit less friction at lower settings.

The top metal drag washer #7H is thicker than the other 3 #7L metal washers. He could replace the #7H with another thinner #7L. Lots of ways to do this.

I like that idea.

-J
Logged
RowdyW
Firearms Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3110



« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2021, 02:46:52 AM »

So Whino83 now has the options starting from the outside, change cupped washers from () to )), shorten gear sleeve, use thinner top metal drag washer, remove top cf drag washer, grind metal drag washers thinner (he works in a machine shop). That should get him so much clearance that he might have to shorten the guard under the star wheel so it doesn't rub the side plate when drag is tightened down. You have to customize when you want to use a reel different than it was designed for. Casting the way he does with the clicker alarm engaged he had better stock up on clicker tongues & spools. The gear on the spool is only replaceable as a spool assembly. It was only designed as an alarm not a casting aid. Use it any way you want to but don't complain when you are using it beyond design limits. These reels were designed so that the gear sleeve is independent of the bridge post for maximum casting distance. That's what the free spool lever is designed for.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.067 seconds with 20 queries.